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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

jenson.org

161–170 of 693 posts

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#161
post #2

- Take laptop, remove the keyboard, nerf the OS, call it "mobile" - Wait for someone to point out that text editing is no longer practical - "I am not anti-mobile. My goal is not to return back to the desktop, but to move mobile forward." Why? Why should we privilege an intentionally nerfed computing experience as the inevitable future? Almost every trend "mobile" is pioneering is bad.

Like the linked article says, > Mobile devices were originally designed for consumption ... and will always be consumption devices. A television isn't a substitute for your laptop either.

Just because something is designed for consumption doesn’t mean we should ignore text editing.

The fact that there are other devices that are better at text editing is a horrible reason to leave text editing on mobile devices as a terrible experience.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of this week, they made it fast again.

It can never be as fast as with the real pressure sensors; it still has to be able to determine between a tap and a hold.

Yep, but it doesn’t feel like a delay now.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#163
My solution to text editing on a mobile device is:

- Use a hardware keyboard.

- Install Termux.

- Install and use vim (or emacs, or nano, or whatever) to edit. That is, use a goddamned fucking text editor designed for the task.

The fact that devices similar to the 1990s-era Psion Series 5 are rare as hen's teeth doesn't help. This was pocketable (given sufficiently large pockets), had basic office productivity apps preinstalled (word processor, spreadsheet, database, email, contact and diary manager), as well as its own scripting language. It was optimised for power consumption and battery life. I know at least one journalist who used the device to file copy on the road --- this was no toy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5>

I'd love to see a modern update based on e-ink rather than LCD, as I wrote a few months ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36171805>

(I did receive a highly intriguing email suggesting such a device might be in development but have had no further follow-ups.)

There's a delicate balance between size, usefulness, and portability which is challenging to get right. In virtually all cases even the worst netbook-type compact laptop is superior for any significant composing task than the best smartphone or tablet. Touch-only interfaces are ultimately a dead-end.

The section of Jenson's article on how taps can be misinterpreted should be tattooed to the forehead of every UI/UX designer, PM, and marketer on the planet, as well as stenciled to all office walls, windows, doors, and whiteboards. I've railed about the ambiguity of selection vs. movement before (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31771672>), but Scott highlights additional nuances. Does a screen touch: place the cursor? bring up the menu? start a drag? start a double tap? start a long press?

And what of when the user is disabled (Parkinsons, other motor/neuron disorder), tired, ill, drunk, in a moving vehicle (preferable not as the driver/operator), juggling children (don't drop), or in any other way at less than 100% focus, attention, ability, and dexterity?

I've had some variant of a smartphone or tablet since the mid-aughts. The two I've the fondest recollections of were the first (a Palm Centro, with a hardware keyboard) and my most recent (Onyx BOOX Max Lumi). Each has different strengths. The Centro was good for basic text entry, though its display was minimal. The BOOX is a large e-ink device which is excellent for reading and has Termux (a Linux userland for Android) installed. With an external keyboard it's passable local Linux system and can be used to SSH elsewhere, though the combined set is not something that can be crammed into a pocket. Slides easily into my messenger bag though.

As I'd listed out in table-form three years ago, there is no use-case for an emissive-display tablet for which it is superior to a different device, and the distinction is little changed for smartphones. Display + keyboard remains the ultimate productivity environment. For capability, privacy, and flexibility, I'd prefer separate audio, image/video, and comms devices, each of which individually can be quite small. Technological advances for each is slow enough that these need not be replaced frequently (once a decade or more should be sufficient). The main driver of late has been storage capacity, though with 1 TB being now widely available, that's no longer a driver for text, audio, or even to a large extent images, though video can of course consume prodigious storage.

The privacy advantages of airgapped generative / capture tools, with a separate comms-capable device also seem increasingly advisable.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#164

I typed 55wpm on my blackberry without looking. The fact that you have to constantly look at the screen keyboard and correct it is a huge attention suck and kills my input speed On blackberry, a mistake was one wrong character. On screen keyboards with swipe and autocorrect, a mistake can be inserting 1 or 2 random words Screen keyboard doesn't work in the rain while we're griping: - on an older android device the bu…

You can disable autocorrect and get your old behavior. I don’t understand this complaint. The only thing missing is feeling the keys, but this is completely fixable:

> a mistake can be inserting 1 or 2 random words

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#166

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

Yeah, the bizarrely apologetic tone of this article was a real turn off. I don’t think any reasonable person would classify text editing on mobile as anything less than needing a full overhaul. Also, whose feelings are we sparing here by being apologetic for criticizing it?

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#167
post #62

When my wife was super pregnant and overdue, friends were consistently asking for updates. I made a website called "is stillpregnant.com" and put a very very minimal website there. It was literally just route53 and cloudfront in front of an S3 bucket. But that meant I needed to make updates from the hospital with my phone. I mean yes there were probably better options but I was a bit busy at the time to think of them…

This is the kind of stuff you read on 4chan as memes about orange site. While going through all that you decided to create a website of all things and update it by hand editing html. Normal people, and I hate saying that, would create a facebook/WhatsApp group or something like that. I'm not making fun of you or anything, not everyone has the same lives, I'm just amazed by the hn crowd.

I mean even if you are going to make a self-hosted site for this, like, there's software you can use where you're not using raw html. I use a static site generator that takes markdown. I don't find markdown too hard to write on mobile, as long as I don't need images.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#168
post #97

The problem is far from invisible (to me at least). A few months ago on HN I used text editing as an example of how iOS wasn't ready for "business" use. I can't find the comment now, but my memory is that I listed several of the issues listed in this post and said something like "Text creation/editing is core to the 'business', non-content-consumer use case. Apple needs to either acknowledge these problems and work t…

[deleted]

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#169

I sometimes wonder if modal editing (like vim uses) might be a good approach for navigating/editing longform text on touch devices. It does seem like a missed opportunity to have taken the keyboard/mouse approach and then transferred it to touch devices. Even the keyboard layout has no real advantage for two thumb typing on a screen. Approaches that adapt the interface whilst leaning heavily on letter based inference…

I've been using nvim in termux on foldable phone since I've bought phone in that form factor. It works great, I'm using "unexpected keyboard" as input method for faster special symbols access. It works pretty well. Good enough for me to program on the go.
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