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U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

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Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#101

Post by em-bee »

gregjor wrote: post #100
em-bee wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could it be that asian devotion for kids is stronger such that even if the marriage is unhappy they will do their best to make sure the kids are ok? western couples are less likely to do that which means that kids there will suffer more especially if their parents are openly fighting, and divorce helps them settle because happier parents makes for happier kids.

“Asian” and “western” describe huge and varied populations with little in common. One refers to a geographic designation, the other to a shared set of cultural norms and economic development. What evidence do you have that “Asian” parents (whomever that refers to) show more devotion to their children? Or that “western” couples show less care? Extended family situations, kids living with grandparents or aunts and uncl…

i lived in china and in europe for more than a decade, also in other asian and western countries.

the difference is noticeable.

chinese will sacrifice everything for their children. until recently they had to because there was no pension system, and the only way to get by when you are to old to work was to have your children care for you.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#102

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

rayiner wrote: post #44
nineplay wrote: post #17

The legality and acceptability of divorce isn't mentioned but I think it should be. Single parents will be rarer in countries where divorce isn't a viable option but that doesn't mean the children are raised in healthier environments.

The idea that divorce can be “healthier” for kids than unhappy parents is self-serving rationalization. Divorce is I’m extremely emotionally and financially disruptive to kids. As an asian married into a white family, the unhappy marriages on my side of the family seem way better for the kids than the unstable relationships on my wife’s side of the family. (But the parents are probably happier divorced/remarried. Tha…

It may be said that it's good to separate children from an incompetent or abusive parent, but how did they get this way?

Are children being taught how to parent? Are girls playing with baby dolls and cook sets and dollhouses? Are they babysitting as teenagers? Are boys taught the roles and responsibilities of husbands and fathers? Do they have younger siblings to supervise for a while, when the parents aren't around? Do they know what it's like to change a diaper, feed an infant, do household chores?

I mean, we expend a lot of energy shoving kids into STEM and soccer and ballet dancing, and they deserve space to play and be children, but what are they going to be when they grow up? Not everyone makes a conscious choice to become a parent.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#103

Post by gregjor »

em-bee wrote: post #101
gregjor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Asian” and “western” describe huge and varied populations with little in common. One refers to a geographic designation, the other to a shared set of cultural norms and economic development. What evidence do you have that “Asian” parents (whomever that refers to) show more devotion to their children? Or that “western” couples show less care? Extended family situations, kids living with grandparents or aunts and uncl…

i lived in china and in europe for more than a decade, also in other asian and western countries. the difference is noticeable. chinese will sacrifice everything for their children. until recently they had to because there was no pension system, and the only way to get by when you are to old to work was to have your children care for you.

I lived in America for most of my life. I raised three children. Every parent I’ve known, myself included, and my own parents, made sacrifices for their children and would sacrifice more if necessary.

I live in SE Asia now. I see lots of devoted parents making sacrifices, just like most parents everywhere.

I’ve seen selfish and negligent parents in the US, and in SE Asia. Those parents occur everywhere.

Some Asian cultures emphasize the extended family, and children taking care of their parents later in life, perhaps more than Americans or westerners emphasize that.

America doesn’t have much of a pension system either, and lots of adult children care for their aging parents.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#104

Post by throwaway290 »

em-bee wrote: post #70
throwaway290 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly: having to bond with a crazy or abusive parent is what's actually unhealthy, not lacking a parent. Children grow up perfectly fine making bonds with non-parents. (See also the father/mother figure trope.) They may do it even if the parent(s) exist but were not fit for the role. In many countries extended families can help sort this out. It is only a bigger problem if you have a single parent + no extended fam…

only very few divorces are with an abusive parent. most divorces are a disagreement between the parents without involving the kids. in those cases, the parents solving their dispute without divorce would be better. but if they can't, and the children loose access to one parent, they will be worse of.

Many cases without a divorce and both parents present include a parent or both who are not very fit for parenting.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#105

Post by throwaway290 »

COGlory wrote: post #49
throwaway290 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly: having to bond with a crazy or abusive parent is what's actually unhealthy, not lacking a parent. Children grow up perfectly fine making bonds with non-parents. (See also the father/mother figure trope.) They may do it even if the parent(s) exist but were not fit for the role. In many countries extended families can help sort this out. It is only a bigger problem if you have a single parent + no extended fam…

Studies show that the biggest indicator child economic success is having two parents. Yeah, there's a lot of indirect measurements and selection bias, but it still says overwhelmingly: 2 parents is better than 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/parents-determine-child-succ... It sucks, but having only one parent is a huge disadvantage.

In the US with high prices, lacking social safety net and lacking extended family support if you have 1 parent you are struggling financially so sure. But elsewhere 2 parents is better than one only as long as you're not one of those cases where 1 parent is crap, in which case if you have extended family support firing a crappy parent is much more preferable. You won't find stats for this of course.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#106

Post by throwaway290 »

anon291 wrote: post #63
brnaftr361 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lone parent children can grow up fine. They very often do not. Teachers are part of large state institutions, paid workers. They're not going to finance someone's surgery, rent, or groceries. Offloading this kind of stuff onto the state doesn't work well because the situations aren't legible and the type of support required necessitates a great deal of intimacy on the part of the benefactor and a great deal of vulner…

Moreover few people have close friends. Men in particular report having no close friends. That means that a single mother is going to be hard pressed to find a male friend to introduce to her child and as the book 'the two parent privilege' states, stepfathers are not equivalent.

You may be talking about something US-specific.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#107

Post by kibwen »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #56
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the argument here to be so incomplete that it verges on silly. Raising a child is difficult, and nobody goes into it wanting to go it alone. The question is not "is single parenthood bad", it's "is single parenthood worse than the alternative of forcing parents to stay together despite a toxic, loveless, or unfaithful marriage". Of course, ideally, people just shouldn't be having kids if they're not absolutely…

It’s funny that more birth control is still touted as a possible solution when it has never been more available and the situation has never been worse.

Worse for whom, precisely? You have not presented any argument that the current state of affairs is worse for anyone at all.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#108

Post by nickthegreek »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #56
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the argument here to be so incomplete that it verges on silly. Raising a child is difficult, and nobody goes into it wanting to go it alone. The question is not "is single parenthood bad", it's "is single parenthood worse than the alternative of forcing parents to stay together despite a toxic, loveless, or unfaithful marriage". Of course, ideally, people just shouldn't be having kids if they're not absolutely…

It’s funny that more birth control is still touted as a possible solution when it has never been more available and the situation has never been worse.

It has been more available. Are you aware a mother just went to prison for procuring her daughter birth control?

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#109

Post by kibwen »

rayiner wrote: post #46
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the argument here to be so incomplete that it verges on silly. Raising a child is difficult, and nobody goes into it wanting to go it alone. The question is not "is single parenthood bad", it's "is single parenthood worse than the alternative of forcing parents to stay together despite a toxic, loveless, or unfaithful marriage". Of course, ideally, people just shouldn't be having kids if they're not absolutely…

Worse for whom? And “love” isn’t even required for marriage. Love marriages are a relatively new innovation.

Worse for everyone involved. Adults in bad marriages do not make for good parents. Children exposed to abusive marriages are predisposed to considering abusive marriages normal, therefore perpetuating the cycle.

And the implication that "love" isn't desirable in a marriage because it's a modern idea is laughable. Child mortality rates less than 80% are a relatively new innovation; shall we get rid of those too? Loving marriages are a good thing. But by all means, if you want to spend the rest of your life co-habitating with someone you loathe, by my guest.

Re: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households (2019)

#110

Post by kibwen »

svggrfgovgf wrote: post #43
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the argument here to be so incomplete that it verges on silly. Raising a child is difficult, and nobody goes into it wanting to go it alone. The question is not "is single parenthood bad", it's "is single parenthood worse than the alternative of forcing parents to stay together despite a toxic, loveless, or unfaithful marriage". Of course, ideally, people just shouldn't be having kids if they're not absolutely…

> nobody goes into it wanting to go it alone I think this is missing the point of the controversy. The argument at the time was that it was fine for women to chose to have a child without being married. It was not about "couples should stay together for the sake of the children". The whole point of the TV show was "Murphy Brown was divorced, and then she decided it was fine to have a child." That is, if a single wome…

> The whole point of the TV show was "Murphy Brown was divorced, and then she decided it was fine to have a child."

Here's how the Wikipedia plot synopsis describes it: "In the show's 1991–92 season, Murphy became pregnant. When her baby's father (ex-husband and current underground radical Jake Lowenstein) expressed his unwillingness to give up his own lifestyle to be a parent, Murphy chose to have the child and raise it alone." If you were to see a real-life woman in the same circumstance, what would you advise that she do instead? And why are we blaming the mother for the problem of deadbeat fathers?

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