Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#51

Post by bakugo » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

dTal wrote: post #2

- Take laptop, remove the keyboard, nerf the OS, call it "mobile" - Wait for someone to point out that text editing is no longer practical - "I am not anti-mobile. My goal is not to return back to the desktop, but to move mobile forward." Why? Why should we privilege an intentionally nerfed computing experience as the inevitable future? Almost every trend "mobile" is pioneering is bad.

> Why should we privilege an intentionally nerfed computing experience as the inevitable future?

The fact that the author worked at Google should be a hint. Advertising companies like Google want desktops and laptops to be left behind in favor of phones and tablets specifically because of the inferior, more locked down and consumption-focused computing experience they provide, and I'm guessing this idea is hammered into all their employees.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#52

Post by ctenb » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

bmacho wrote: post #43

Use a keyboard app with arrows. My choice is "Hacker's keyboard" [0] but I think there are others. (Search reddit for best keyboards with arrows.) I can't say more about it, text editing is not a problem on mobile. It's ok. I installed, then I forgot. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketwork...

Can't run it on newer Android versions

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#53

Post by colanderman » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

mpalmer wrote: post #19

rumori wrote: post #17

I wonder if the author is aware of the cursor positioning gestures on iOS (hold space, then drag) I’m also not sure that the inline magnifier is such a good idea, he never gives an example with a fat finger overlaid, I think that would immediately show it’s just not feasible. I’m also sure that Apple has dozens of user tests with all type of text editing strategies, Ken Kocienda even wrote a book about his process de…

He probably is aware, Android has the same gesture.

I was not aware of this! This is a game changer for me, my single biggest complaint about text editing (which I was about to post here as something the authors missed) was that there's no means to perform fine cursor movement with gestures (I would expect the cursor to slow when the magnifying lens pops up). But apparently there is already a way!!

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#54

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

alexeldeib wrote: post #46

lbotos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had a solid solution with 3d touch -- press a little bit harder and it was near instant jump to right position/highlight. I felt much faster inputting on my iPhone then. I miss it every day.

Doesn’t this still exist? You Force Touch the space bar and get a cursor

It used to be pressure sensitive, which made it much faster to respond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Touch

> Haptic Touch is a feature on the iPhone XR (but not the iPhone XS) and later iPhone models replacing 3D Touch. The touchscreen, which no longer has a pressure sensitive layer, distinguishes between a tap and a long-press using a timed delay to activate certain 3D Touch features (only ones for elements that do not have an action assigned to long press). This feature was added to the iPhone SE (1st generation) with the iOS 13 update and to any iPad capable of running iPadOS 13. As of watchOS 7, only Haptic Touch is recognized, and Force Touch is discontinued on all subsequent Apple Watches.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#55

Post by captn3m0 » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

Another issue I sometimes face is gestures around the screen edge are confused. Selecting text on the left edge will trigger “Back” in some cases.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#56

Post by lbotos » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

alexeldeib wrote: post #46

lbotos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had a solid solution with 3d touch -- press a little bit harder and it was near instant jump to right position/highlight. I felt much faster inputting on my iPhone then. I miss it every day.

Doesn’t this still exist? You Force Touch the space bar and get a cursor

If I'm remembering correctly the main difference is that it was fast -- the space bar cursor is fine but I do feel like I lost something that made my input on mobile better.

Before: I'm typing quickly, and I want to move cursor, I press slightly harder.

Now: I'm typing quickly, and I want to move the cursor, I press and wait.

iOS17 has a "faster" haptic touch setting and it helps, but with 3d touch I was much faster.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#57

Post by plaidfuji » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list.

The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop setup. But the manager’s life is one of constant movement, reviewing and making comments on things, drafting, editing, tweaking, etc… and usually in blocks of time where it doesn’t quite make sense to sit all the way down (unless you’re really good at calendar management, which.. also sucks on mobile!)

> fixing text editing isn’t seen as important enough in the war between Android and iOS.

I think there’s a group of people for whom this would make all the difference. It’s just not your typical consumer.

EDIT: and before you say “sounds like you just want a tablet” - I don’t! A tablet is the difference between lugging around a briefcase with me everywhere, or not.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#58

Post by justsomehnguy » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

davidmurdoch wrote: post #35

Not a single mention of the biggest problem, by far, of text editing on Android: no undo? Fix that before literally anything else on Android, please. > too many people mistakenly see text editing as “done” I can't imagine anyone that uses both desktop and mobile to think mobile text editing doesn't need improvements.

> no undo

It works fine, you just need a keyboard what would allow you to send Ctrl+Z.

Yes, there should be a menu item (at least in a pop-up) too...

BTW, there is a API to add your things to that pop-up (like for searching providers etc) so there is a chance you can make it.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#59

Post by graemep » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #49

Nothing on mobile is okay. I know everyone loves their smart phones but they really are terrible computers in every way except for portability. Use a computer when you actually want to do things. Smartphones are just for when you're literally unable to use a real computer.

I recently bought a PineTab2. Its a pretty rough around the edges experience (hardware is fine, but Plasma Mobile is still lacking compared to Android) BUT with the case with a keyboard it is far better for writing anything. Not as good as my desktop, but a lot better than most mobile devices.

I usually use Whatsapp web and the Signal desktop app at my desktop when I want to write more than sentence or two. A physical keyboard makes it so much easier. For example, I left making my comments here today until I sat down at my desktop.

If you must use a phone for typing more than a tiny bit, buy a keyboard for it. Even a little bluetooth keyboard is a lot better.

I am tempted by phones with keyboards. I used to have a Blackberry a long time ago and there are Android phones in similar formats.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#60

Post by felipemesquita » Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 1:49 PM UTC

alexeldeib wrote: post #46

lbotos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had a solid solution with 3d touch -- press a little bit harder and it was near instant jump to right position/highlight. I felt much faster inputting on my iPhone then. I miss it every day.

Doesn’t this still exist? You Force Touch the space bar and get a cursor

3D Touch capable models (6s to x) had actual pressure sensors embedded in the screen assembly, which meant there was another input channel (how hard you pressed) that apple mapped to an extra commands, like a right click. To highlight text with it, you could press slightly harder anywhere on the keyboard and that would start cursor movement mode (like holding on the spacebar on newer models), then, with the cursor on the word you wanted to start highlighting from, you pressed a bit harder and it would highlight from that word on until you released the keyboard.