Why scalpers can get tickets • Hacker News Board

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#61

Post by hackeraccount » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

nayuki wrote: post #50

xnx wrote: post #3

Based on nothing, I think tickets for high-demand events should be allocated: 1/3 first-come first-serve for in-person sales (you pay with your time), 1/3 random assignment (you have to get lucky), 1/3 auction to highest bidder (pay with your money).

This sounds like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Marathon . It has different entry classes such as lottery, previous participant, or pay a high price.

It's been a long time since I did that but they also had a deal where if you ran a certain number of local NY races you got the chance to buy a bib number. Come to think of it I think you can also get a chance to buy if you have a fast enough time in a qualifying race.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#62

Post by firesteelrain » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

nayuki wrote: post #53

firesteelrain wrote: post #29

I don’t know if I buy the premise of the article. We were able to have an opportunity to buy tickets after being waitlisted (I think it was 48-72hrs after the initial presale). But the tickets were extremely expensive. Ticketmaster was scalping not the scalpers. We did buy Taylor Swift tickets for next year however it was $1k for three tickets.

> Ticketmaster was scalping not the scalpers. If I understand correctly, the definition of scalping is to buy and sell quickly in the hope of a profit. Ticketmaster is the originator of the tickets (it is not reselling from anyone else), so it cannot be a scalper. You can't just make up meanings and assume that scalping means selling at an uncomfortably high price.

Look don’t be a dick. I am just using an analogy

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#63

Post by jessenaser » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

utterstep wrote: post #44

I just _love_ how the links to the "browsers which are helping scalpers" are marked with "?ref=404media.co".. Just in case, you know..

I think they do that for every website they link to.

For example on this page: https://www.404media.co/ios-17-could-break-diabetic-glucose-...

They link to CNN using the same reference: https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/health/abbott-recall-freestyl...

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#64

Post by uptown » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

This seems like a situation ideally suited for biometrics at time of purchase. It limits/complicates the hoarding of tickets and is likely something many actual fans would accept in order to secure tickets for an event.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#65

Post by hackeraccount » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:52 PM UTC

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #23

nayuki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take off the "/s", because I agree with your statement at face value. If there are a limited number of tickets but many thousands of fans who are willing and able to pay, then naturally the price goes up. And whether you like it or not, people are either paying with money, or paying with time (e.g. waiting in line), or paying with frustration (e.g. going through opaque scalping networks). The root cause of th…

> The root cause of the problem isn't scalpers; it's the original concert seller either setting too low a price or too low a quantity. Imagine viewing a pricing scheme that allows more socioeconomic groups access to the arts as the core problem. We're experiencing a great decline and fall as social services are failing, wages stagnating, and common cultural experiences are being squeezed for profit, only enabling the…

I'm flummoxed by this view but at least empathetic when it comes to food and shelter. When it comes to Olivia Rodrigo tickets I'm legitimately confused.

If Rodrigo decided to abandon her career and only do private shows for Bill Gate's who's business would that be but hers? I think there's room for either disdain or pity for the person who cares about nothing other then money but who's going to make that judgement about another person's motivations? And who would jump in take action on that judgement?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#66

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #47

fps-hero wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every action directed at making tickets more affordable will have the opposite effect of making scalping more profitable. Im amazed that a reverse auction style approach hasn’t caught on, when you are capacity limited it seems nearly optimal for extracting profit and kills the ticket scalping business model.

>it seems nearly optimal for extracting profit and kills the ticket scalping business model. Also seems nearly optimal for alienating all but your richest fans. The extra profit you might extract from the concert might not actually put you ahead in the long term when fans stop caring about you because of your profit maximizing business practices.

What good is that when the scalpers and not your fans are the ones to benefit? All you're doing is screwing your fans even more because now they have to risk getting ripped off by a scam since tickets are only available from shady third party jerks.

If demand is so high that people can't afford tickets and you want to do something for the fans, put the game in a bigger stadium.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#67

Post by scott_w » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

Because, ironically, a show that only rich people can afford to attend will be pretty terrible. Rich people tend not to loudly enjoy the show, so the atmosphere isn't there. This is bad for the rest of the audience and for the performer. It's hard to put 100% in when all you can see is a bunch of people staring solemnly at you.

It happens in football (soccer for my American friends) for clubs like Man Utd (and probably Man City now) where ticket prices are out of reach of working class fans. The visiting fans make a point of trying to out-sing the local support then insulting them for only being there because the club is winning trophies. All football fans know the song "where were you when you were shit!"

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#68

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

thfuran wrote: post #13

aschobel wrote: post #7

> Ticketmaster now requires text message phone number verification, but they can bypass this by buying “Mobile Virtual Network Operator” phone numbers in bulk from eBay I’m surprised SMS verification is this ineffective at testing for “human-ness”.

SMS are plaintext that can be obtained via web API. It seems on the face of it to be just about the least effective possible means of verifying human-ness.

The reason SMS verification is popular isn't because it's effective against sybil attacks. It's not. You can get access to phone numbers in bulk for little money.

It's because most honest users only have one phone number, which makes it a useful unique ID for tracking the honest users. Anyone using it should immediately be under suspicion of selling you out.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#69

Post by jessenaser » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

hooverd wrote: post #8

Scalping is such an ugly term for "the market efficiently allocating resources." This is just completely normal price discovery. /s

The problem is that the first hand the ticket touches is a reseller instead of a person that genuinely wants and enjoys the concert.

If the price is set from the Artist, venue, Ticketmaster at prices from $50-200 then they have made that decision.

The local mini libraries on the sides of streets have free books. You could take a book and sell it, but you are not the intended person. The intention of the transaction is for the genuine reader to read the book, put it back, or give new books. This intention is set by the originator of the transaction.

If the Artist wanted the most money, they would set the price accordingly.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#70

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

slau wrote: post #17

pimlottc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1/3 first-come first-serve for in-person sales (you pay with your time) You can pay people to wait in line for you > 1/3 random assignment (you have to get lucky) Scalpers have the means to can create hundreds of accounts

Make the tickets named, and require ID upon entry. Completely kill the resale market. If people can’t make it, they can return the ticket for the same amount of money they bought it, up to one week before the event. Or they can get cancellation insurance just like some would on holiday plane tickets. Returned tickets go back on sale into the main pool. As far as I can tell, the scalping problem would be gone instantl…

The problem is legitimate ticketholders don't like this. You're going to a concert with your SO that you had to buy tickets for six months in advance, then you break up and get together with someone else. Now instead of transferring the ticket you paid for to your new SO, you're stuck either going with your ex (that'll go over well) or going by yourself. People don't like this.