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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#31

Post by fps-hero »

reidjs wrote: post #10
capableweb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists generally want to have a diverse crowd in terms of disposable income, they don't want to have a crowd of just the people who can/will pay the most.

I don’t think the artist has much say in the matter at that scale

Touring artist’s absolutely have a say in their ticket prices, after all it directly correlates to how much they will be paid. Once tickets are handed over to promoters and distributors then it becomes out of their control.

Festival appearance rates are agreed on in advance of ticket sales, so tickets prices are the responsibility of festival organisers.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#32

Post by thechao »

slau wrote: post #17
pimlottc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1/3 first-come first-serve for in-person sales (you pay with your time) You can pay people to wait in line for you > 1/3 random assignment (you have to get lucky) Scalpers have the means to can create hundreds of accounts

Make the tickets named, and require ID upon entry. Completely kill the resale market. If people can’t make it, they can return the ticket for the same amount of money they bought it, up to one week before the event. Or they can get cancellation insurance just like some would on holiday plane tickets. Returned tickets go back on sale into the main pool. As far as I can tell, the scalping problem would be gone instantl…

I've been exposed to precisely this mechanism at "mom & pop" venues; it works great, and no one's upset (there's a loss of last-minute transfer between friends, but that's the cost). Ticketmaster self-scalps: it's in their best interest not to have this mechanism.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#33

Post by mattnewton »

josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

Ticket revenue is just one source for the artist who is betting they make more from the lifetime value of a fan buying their brand (merch and historically listening to their music, but I don’t know if streaming changed those numbers). It’s like a giant advertisement for their brand - early on in a band’s life, it can even be a loss leader after all the crew is paid.

A key part of that concert experience is other people’s excitement too. For one extreme, a Grateful Dead show was basically a mini festival with one act. The crowd before, after and during is an integral part of the experience. Empty seats don’t tell others about the event or participate with the other ticket holders, degrading the value for artists and many concert-goers.

So, a Dead show that sells just a few hundred many-many-thousand-dollar tickets might sit on a maximum supply / demand curve for the venue or scalpers just looking at ticket revenue, but could destroy much of the value of the event for the band and it’s everyday fans who want the event experience and want it for as many people as possible.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#34

Post by dylan604 »

jppittma wrote: post #30
armada651 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article itself mentions how scalpers just register hundreds or thousands of accounts to dramatically increase their odds at winning fan lotteries.

Do fan-club registration in person.

Then they just pay homeless people to register. Whatever clever you can come up with, they will figure out a way around it.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#35

Post by philwelch »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #23
nayuki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take off the "/s", because I agree with your statement at face value. If there are a limited number of tickets but many thousands of fans who are willing and able to pay, then naturally the price goes up. And whether you like it or not, people are either paying with money, or paying with time (e.g. waiting in line), or paying with frustration (e.g. going through opaque scalping networks). The root cause of th…

> The root cause of the problem isn't scalpers; it's the original concert seller either setting too low a price or too low a quantity. Imagine viewing a pricing scheme that allows more socioeconomic groups access to the arts as the core problem. We're experiencing a great decline and fall as social services are failing, wages stagnating, and common cultural experiences are being squeezed for profit, only enabling the…

Access to arts and culture is broader now than it has been ever before in human history. If I want to listen to any Olivia Rodrigo song, I can go to YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Music, search for “Olivia Rodrigo”, and be set. Other than the price of internet access and a device that can connect to the internet, it costs literally nothing, unless maybe I want to pay extra to get rid of advertisements.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#36

Post by username332211 »

josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

For the same reason why artists use Ticketmaster. Do you think they are stupid and just hand over ticket distribution to a company that routinely charges 30$ fees to a 40$ ticket?

No, artists and producers aren't stupid, they get the most of the money from the Ticketmaster "fees". But when a fan sees a 70$ ticket, they'd may decide Bruce Springsteen (net worth 650$ million) isn't a man of the people. When they see a 40$ ticket and a 30$ ticket, fans just swear at Ticketmaster.

I'm confident in a few years we'll read about how scalping enterprises do profit sharing with artists and producers.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#37

Post by crazygringo »

chevman wrote: post #22

Protip I've used the last couple years (worked before that as well, but not as much need) - just check StubHub or other second hand markets a week or so before the show. Generally the scalpers over buy and will start to panic and unload tickets at very good prices the closer the show gets.

This is not true at all as a general rule.

It all comes down to whether or not there's enough demand to fill the venue.

If there's plenty of demand, StubHub prices will remain much higher than face value. They absolutely do not ever become available at good prices.

On the other hand, if the venue is larger than demand, then yes -- you can easily score half-price tickets a few days leading up to the show.

But good luck trying to figure out which one will be the outcome. If you delay purchasing, prices are just as likely to keep going up as they are to go down.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#38

Post by tornato7 »

IMO, Comic Con has done a pretty fine job at eliminating scalpers. They do this in a few ways:

- Random selection over an hour at ticket sale time that is unique per device, with some 'are you human' checks along the way to make it more difficult to bot.

- Requiring physical delivery of the badge with a maximum number per address, or government issued ID to pick it up in person.

- Random ID checks during the con.

- The first round of sales goes exclusively to people who had a badge before. I.e. you need a code from the back of the badge. So even if you bought it from a scalper, you would now have the code for next year's presale.

None of these are perfect, but it's still the best ticketing process I've seen in recent years.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#39

Post by bradleyankrom »

username332211 wrote: post #36
josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

For the same reason why artists use Ticketmaster. Do you think they are stupid and just hand over ticket distribution to a company that routinely charges 30$ fees to a 40$ ticket? No, artists and producers aren't stupid, they get the most of the money from the Ticketmaster "fees". But when a fan sees a 70$ ticket, they'd may decide Bruce Springsteen (net worth 650$ million) isn't a man of the people. When they see a…

Artists do not get most of the money from Ticketmaster fees.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#40

Post by mattnewton »

thriftwy wrote: post #19

Why not raise prices until you hit the supply demand cross? Yes you will visit one event out of three (just as today), but the dignity will remain with you.

I posted this elsewhere in the thread[0], but tldr I believe that concerts give value to fans and artists beyond the ticket price as a giant ad for the band’s brand and a community that forms around it, both pressures that put the optimal price for fans and artists below the market for it as a one time entertainment option. The optimal price point for the artist playing a repeated game is therefore lower than the optimal price point for an event venue or scalper.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=37624742&goto=item%3Fi...

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