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FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

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Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#31

Post by bombcar »

eastbound wrote: post #23
Thlom wrote: post #8

We had a national test in Norway that mostly worked OK a few months ago. But then they wanted to use it in a real emergency in early August(some specific areas were about to be flooded due to heavy rain) and that didn’t work as well. First of all cell phones way out of the flood area were getting emergency messages, some of these got several messages in different languages and different wording over several days. It…

Test messages are spam. After the pandemic, I think we’re quite a number to not trust the public services (either act too late, or try to revive the panic when it’s over). When I received the alert test messages, which, I remind, will not only be used to amplify terrorism scare but also for crowd management during flood, tell you to avoid protests, and then to tell us that we should urgently take the vaccine… No than…

It's the "boy who cried wolf" problem - test messages should begin with TEST TEST TEST and there should be an option to filter out test messages.

I blocked all emergency alerts until they finally gave you the ability to block just amber alerts.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#32

Post by jawns »

I've often wondered how they measure the efficacy of the tests. Is there some sort of telemetry on the phones that reports back that the user received and viewed the alert? Is there a sample group of test users who have agreed to report whether they received the alert?

Or does that even matter? Are they really more concerned with the infrastructure at the provider level?

The release also mentions that it's primarily intended for emergencies at the national level. I wonder what sorts of emergencies they're envisioning. Earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters can have wide impact, but are there any that really have nation-wide, proximate impact? Are they anticipating nuclear strikes?

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#33

Post by somat »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #22
Scarjit wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In germany we now have a "Warntag" [literally "Warn day"], which is scheduled to be once per Year in September. This is mostly a result of a previous test, which revealed that in case of a catastrophe, most germans would not be warned (Sirens not functioning, cell broadcast was not used, ...) Sadly the website of our Federal Office for Civil Protection and Disaster Assistance is not translating every page to english.…

San Francisco used to test their sirens weekly which was frequent enough that both the siren and the incoherent verbal bits just kinda blended into the background.

Right, the "familiarity breeds contempt" problem with testing alerts too often.

With sirens it would probably make sense to have a different but similar tone/sequence for tests vs production alerts. Everyone would instinctively know that something was wrong.

Which runs right into the problem that when there is a difference between test and production. production will probably fail. Some days you just can't win. Probably the best compromise would be monthly(I agree weekly might be too much) infrastructure test, with a full blown yearly test/holiday where everything goes to hell for a day as you test actual procedures.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#34

Post by LinuxBender »

bombcar wrote: post #31
eastbound wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Test messages are spam. After the pandemic, I think we’re quite a number to not trust the public services (either act too late, or try to revive the panic when it’s over). When I received the alert test messages, which, I remind, will not only be used to amplify terrorism scare but also for crowd management during flood, tell you to avoid protests, and then to tell us that we should urgently take the vaccine… No than…

It's the "boy who cried wolf" problem - test messages should begin with TEST TEST TEST and there should be an option to filter out test messages. I blocked all emergency alerts until they finally gave you the ability to block just amber alerts.

Not just the word TEST but also flag it as a test. There is a field that differentiates test messages from real ones. Some cell phones have the option to enable/disable the test broadcasts. buried in the menus under emergency broadcasts

In this case however I believe they want everyone to receive it regardless of being a test. I believe S. Korea also just did this test including locations of nearby bunkers. The US may not have that many accessible bunkers.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#35

Post by icegreentea2 »

array-species wrote: post #17

Funny FEMA should just now come up, I just now spent some time considering FEMA! It is very surprising to me that much emergency infrastructure exists, without providing very basic things to households like regionally relevant emergency kits and something like one month of MRE + Water. Rather than it sitting in some warehouse... because distribution becomes a very immediate problem. Not forced but, offered to anyone…

The DoD procures MREs at about 80 bucks a case of 12. You could probably stretch one MRE per day for survival situations (~1250 calories), though 1.5 or 2 would be much more comfortable. Taking it to be 1 per day, one month is 200 dollars.

MREs have a 3 year shelf life at room temperature, so each person you supplied would need to be topped off every 3 years - so like 65 bucks per person per year. So fits in their current budget, but would displace like... a lot of what they're currently doing.

One month worth is probably also not really worth it from a value perspective? Push down to 5 days of MREs + water per person, and you'd probably capture like 98% of the value.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#36

Post by vel0city »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #35
array-species wrote: post #17

Funny FEMA should just now come up, I just now spent some time considering FEMA! It is very surprising to me that much emergency infrastructure exists, without providing very basic things to households like regionally relevant emergency kits and something like one month of MRE + Water. Rather than it sitting in some warehouse... because distribution becomes a very immediate problem. Not forced but, offered to anyone…

The DoD procures MREs at about 80 bucks a case of 12. You could probably stretch one MRE per day for survival situations (~1250 calories), though 1.5 or 2 would be much more comfortable. Taking it to be 1 per day, one month is 200 dollars. MREs have a 3 year shelf life at room temperature, so each person you supplied would need to be topped off every 3 years - so like 65 bucks per person per year. So fits in their cu…

> So fits in their current budget, but would displace like... a lot of what they're currently doing

Yeah, right? Like sure, we could just eliminate FEMA and instead use that budget to just hand out MREs. But then they wouldn't be doing their emergency management training and standardization that they do. They wouldn't do disaster housing assistance. They wouldn't be working on hazard mitigation activities.

There's a lot of things FEMA does that isn't just hand out some crackers after the storms pass.

Personally, if my house gets destroyed in a tornado I'd prefer FEMA to come through and cover a hotel for a couple weeks while we figure out what to do rather than just hand me some MREs a year ago that also got destroyed in the tornado.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#37

Post by vel0city »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #24
jfk13 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that if you distributed emergency supplies ahead of time, some people would treat it as a convenient handout and simply consume them. And even aside from the temptation to use the supplies, not everyone would be able to find a place to store a month of rations & water.

Not to mention hurricanes and tornadoes will likely destroy the rations for those who need them most.

Right? Here's some MREs to store in your house that's getting washed out to sea in the hurricane or burned up in the wildfire!

Great planning work.

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#38

Post by idlewords »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #35
array-species wrote: post #17

Funny FEMA should just now come up, I just now spent some time considering FEMA! It is very surprising to me that much emergency infrastructure exists, without providing very basic things to households like regionally relevant emergency kits and something like one month of MRE + Water. Rather than it sitting in some warehouse... because distribution becomes a very immediate problem. Not forced but, offered to anyone…

The DoD procures MREs at about 80 bucks a case of 12. You could probably stretch one MRE per day for survival situations (~1250 calories), though 1.5 or 2 would be much more comfortable. Taking it to be 1 per day, one month is 200 dollars. MREs have a 3 year shelf life at room temperature, so each person you supplied would need to be topped off every 3 years - so like 65 bucks per person per year. So fits in their cu…

MREs are not meant to be eaten for more than 21 consecutive days; even eating them for a couple of days will make the diner uncomfortably aware of why they've been given the nickname "Meals Refusing to Exit"

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#39

Post by knewter »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #21
Thlom wrote: post #8

We had a national test in Norway that mostly worked OK a few months ago. But then they wanted to use it in a real emergency in early August(some specific areas were about to be flooded due to heavy rain) and that didn’t work as well. First of all cell phones way out of the flood area were getting emergency messages, some of these got several messages in different languages and different wording over several days. It…

Well we did recently have a pretty spectacular failure of the emergency alert system in Hawaii.

Bureaucratic failure though

Re: FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

#40

Post by ls612 »

bombcar wrote: post #31
eastbound wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Test messages are spam. After the pandemic, I think we’re quite a number to not trust the public services (either act too late, or try to revive the panic when it’s over). When I received the alert test messages, which, I remind, will not only be used to amplify terrorism scare but also for crowd management during flood, tell you to avoid protests, and then to tell us that we should urgently take the vaccine… No than…

It's the "boy who cried wolf" problem - test messages should begin with TEST TEST TEST and there should be an option to filter out test messages. I blocked all emergency alerts until they finally gave you the ability to block just amber alerts.

iOS already allows you to filter out test alerts and amber alerts, while still getting (for instance) tornado warnings.
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