Bambu Lab A1 Mini • Hacker News Board

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#31

Post by userbinator » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:28 AM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #24

jLaForest wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few weeks ago their mandatory cloud printing service had a bug and caused printers to spontaneously crash in the middle of the night, in many cases doing significant damage to the printer. Other than that Bambu had a pretty good reputation.

I hadn't heard of this company or that story but it was wild https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/15sfisq/bambula...

That was discussed here too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37187138

They call it a "bug", and the explanation seems plausible, but consider that a hacker could easily do the same thing.

Good thing these are only hobbyist-level machines, and AFAIK not used in any real production manufacturing. Imagine the same sort of bug (or hack) happening to CNC machines all over the world.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#32

Post by foxylad » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:36 AM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

My 3d printing journey seems to have ended with a Prusa Mini. Really solid and well engineered device, and it's delightful that Prusa acknowledge the open-source hardware and software they depended on to build their company.

BambooLab... well it is a nice machine, and they have definitely advanced the the field with input shaping. But this machine is pretty much a Prusa Mini with linear rails, and I'd bet there is open-source in their firmware and slicer, but there's no way to find out because their business model is to give nothing back to the ecosystem they have leveraged. That leaves a bad taste for me, but I'm sure many people will be quite happy to ignore such esoteric concerns and happily lock themselves in.

Until BambooLab have a bad financial quarter. Then the optional cloud integration will become mandatory with a subscription, and the spool detection system will start reject non-BambooLab filament.

Doctorow has struck a chord with his distillation of enshittification, and you are right on the money raising it here.

(Meanwhile Prusa has just released input shaping for the Mini.)

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#33

Post by washadjeffmad » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:39 AM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #27

jLaForest wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few weeks ago their mandatory cloud printing service had a bug and caused printers to spontaneously crash in the middle of the night, in many cases doing significant damage to the printer. Other than that Bambu had a pretty good reputation.

> mandatory cloud printing service Do I have to use it? Or is it possible to run without it and just lose some feature I may not even need. You said mandatory so I’m assuming the answer is no. Unfortunately if that’s the case, it’s an absolute no no for me.

Nope, and you don't lose anything that's not exclusive to the Bambu Handy app, which I believe is just manual object cancellation right now. Bambu Studio, their slicing suite for Linux, Mac, and Windows on their GitHub, can add printer in LAN Only mode.

I felt pretty strongly about not wanting cloud options, but just look at their documentation across their site, videos, and wiki. They're the opposite of that evil, dark pattern, gaslighting, contemptible shit we associate with SV tech today. They let their products do the talking, which makes it clear how much they believe in what they're building.

I cancelled my P1S Combo order because of the cloud incident, checked with colleagues with Bambus whether they were affected, and after realizing I probably fell for a little anti-Sino propaganda, bought an X1C.

I can say this with a decade of printing experience, but it's everything I imagined 3D printing would be when I first got into it. Today, we've got Ultimakers with Material Stations, every model of Creality, and the Bambus are just really thoughtful, well designed and engineered products that happen to blow everything else out of the water. It's hard not to be excited about.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#34

Post by function_seven » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:41 AM UTC

foxylad wrote: post #32

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

My 3d printing journey seems to have ended with a Prusa Mini. Really solid and well engineered device, and it's delightful that Prusa acknowledge the open-source hardware and software they depended on to build their company. BambooLab... well it is a nice machine, and they have definitely advanced the the field with input shaping. But this machine is pretty much a Prusa Mini with linear rails, and I'd bet there is op…

The first time I saw the word “enshittification” it just clicked. It really is a tidy word!

Do you have any opinion on the Creality K1? Not a technical one, but about their participation in the open community? Another comment in this thread brought it up, and it seems like a great machine.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#35

Post by justinclift » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:42 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #31

mmastrac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't heard of this company or that story but it was wild https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/15sfisq/bambula...

That was discussed here too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37187138 They call it a "bug", and the explanation seems plausible, but consider that a hacker could easily do the same thing. Good thing these are only hobbyist-level machines, and AFAIK not used in any real production manufacturing. Imagine the same sort of bug (or hack) happening to CNC machines all over the world.

The statement that Bambu release about it seems ok from the technical side:

https://blog.bambulab.com/cloud-temporary-outage-investigati...

There's no real detail as to whether they're really trying to make whole anyone who's printer was damaged. Just the standard "contact us" type of thing:

    If you were affected by this cloud outage, and your printer has suffered any damage,
    please don't hesitate to contact our Support Team at Bambu Support.

So, bit hard to tell without hearing from any affected users who have contacted their support.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#36

Post by fnordpiglet » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:42 AM UTC

postalrat wrote: post #20

burritosnob wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they "taking everything from the community"? You mean researching user feedback on other printers and building a better product? I have owned a dozen or so printers over the last decade going back to PrintrBot. As with a lot of users, the BambuLabs X1 was hands down the best out the box experience of any printer I own. It continues to be my go to printer while my other Prusa's + Creality's sit idle. As long a…

I heard the same arguments for the Ender printers when they were popular. Best prints ever, incredible detail, etc, etc. At least Ender wasn't actively trying to trap people into their ecosystem. It won't work though. The clones are coming. Many companies have tried to get the cloud lock-in but it just doesn't make sense to buy in as a user.

I don’t get how they can trap people into their ecosystem. Does it print STL files, or does it have some way of owning the asset life cycle? Whether I sneakernet an sdcard,m, load via octoprint, or something else, I’m not super locked in. Or does locking in mean “making it so user friendly and easy that you wouldn’t want to use a Marlin firmware printer?” Otherwise it’s just another UI for managing my STLs and slicing. That’s a lot different than an iCloud scenario where all of everything is end to end across the closed device ecosystem. Just the last mile of my STL files is nothing.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#37

Post by alsodumb » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 5:53 AM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

Ahh, classic hackernews upvoting the 'I hate cloud' comment to the top.

I have a few Bambu lab printers (perks of being a grad student) and their offline mode is pretty good - there are printers in my lab that are pretty much never connected to internet and print 24/7.

Sure, offline mode doesn't have all the features they mention on their website, but even without it, Bambu lab printers are better than their competition by a HUGE margin. I've had all kinds of printers before, including Prusa. Nothing comes close to Bambu lab ones in terms of no non sense printing and cost.

Sure, their components aren't open source, but official spares are cheap enough. And they promised to keep them cheap enough. Sure, they can change their word, and guess what? The printer would have made it's money's worth (for personal or commerical use) by the time that happens. You can throw away the printer by that point and you'd have net positive gain.

Bambu lab is going to do what DJI did to drones. Period. Every kid is gonna have a 3D printer, every influencer is going to make a 3D printer is cool post, and lots of Christmas gifts are going to be Bambu 3D printers. Bambu lab is former DJI folks - no wonder their product strategy and in some way design language is so close to DJI.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#38

Post by technick » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:03 AM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

I make things for conferences with 3d printers. I started with Wanhao printers, then went to Aurora Jaguar's... and then Prusa Mk3s's... and now am looking at a mixed print farm of Prusa MK3s and Bambu Labs X1C's. I'm selling the rest of my Prusa printers in the coming months and replacing them with more Bambu's, their product are amazing and 3-4x faster than prusa printers.

I love Prusa but they were caught sleeping at the wheel, they stopped innovating until bambu labs woke them up.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#39

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:03 AM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

Bambu printers will accept G-code on a MicroSD card, like basically any 3D printer ever. The cloud stuff is optional, but very useful.

I completely understand why people hate Bambu Lab, but I wish they'd understand why other people like them. If you want a new hobby, there are lots of excellent FDM printers on the market. If you just want to print good parts, you'd be a fool to buy anything other than a Bambu. There's just nothing else that will reliably produce dimensionally accurate parts out of the box and for thousands of hours afterwards, with absolutely no tinkering or troubleshooting.

Re: Bambu Lab A1 Mini

#40

Post by function_seven » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:04 AM UTC

alsodumb wrote: post #37

function_seven wrote: post #4

EDIT: After some more poking around, I’m finding out that the cloud features of this thing are pretty integral to the experience. This thing looks nice, but the enshittification scaffolding is too much. I knew the price was too good. ORIGINAL COMMENT: Wow, I've been out of the 3D printing world for a bit. I have a Monoprice Maker Ultimate (Wanhao D6, rebadged) that has a slightly larger build area, but otherwise it's…

Ahh, classic hackernews upvoting the 'I hate cloud' comment to the top. I have a few Bambu lab printers (perks of being a grad student) and their offline mode is pretty good - there are printers in my lab that are pretty much never connected to internet and print 24/7. Sure, offline mode doesn't have all the features they mention on their website, but even without it, Bambu lab printers are better than their competit…

I totally believe that these printers are technically amazing. That’s why I made the Apple vs. beige box analogy. Those M-series chips and their hardware quality are way better. But there is stronger lock-in.

I’ve been burned so many times by other products that I think my wariness is more than justified.

And I’m not alone, which is why this is “classic”.

(But the pricing is really good. I think I’ll wait and see a bit more)