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How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

acoup.blog

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Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#71

Post by wizerdrobe »

Jensson wrote: post #58
bcherry wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's because it's true. I really do think about the roman empire all the time! and my wife couldn't believe it. Most "trends" from TikTok are made up, stupid, fake, or highly exaggerated. This one is funny because it's actually kinda true for a LOT of people, and has nothing to do with TikTok.

Is it really that strange that people think about the Roman empire when things related to it are all around us? Even the white house is built to look Roman. Not to mention all the documentaries and games that touches on Roman stuff. If you ask men how often they think about different manufacturing processes you will probably get similar numbers, or even higher, for the same reason.

I find it interesting but for the diversity of “why”

I have an Italian American friend who weirdly into the Roman Empire, kind of in a weeb kind of way but he’s a tatted up (Roman Republic full back piece!) Army veteran who would Kimura my ass if I he sees this.

I have a friend just nerdy as shit and into history. He constantly talks about this podcast or that.

I have an ex-roommate / philosophy major, so it comes up a good bit.

I have a friend into Stoicism. Oddly not a philosophy major.

I have a friend rich in small arms, ammunition, and those rice ration buckets because we’re destined for a failure of the Republic as they had.

I have a friend with the same belief, except he just wants to fiddle so I’m pretty sure I won’t bother raiding his house if either of them are correct.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#72

Post by Jensson »

acatnamedjoe wrote: post #68
Jensson wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that strange that people think about the Roman empire when things related to it are all around us? Even the white house is built to look Roman. Not to mention all the documentaries and games that touches on Roman stuff. If you ask men how often they think about different manufacturing processes you will probably get similar numbers, or even higher, for the same reason.

I don't think it's funny because it's "strange". It's funny because it reminds people that they can have very different inner worlds to people they share their life with.

But people already know that? Everyone knows men and women think about very different things.

But I guess it is similar to the old meme where a woman worries why the guy is so distant that day and if he doesn't like her any longer, and the guy is just thinking hard about why his motorcycle isn't starting.

But that explains it: it is funny the first time you see it, but these differences aren't funny when you already are aware of them. Everything is a first to people. So I don't find it funny since I have seen similar things many times before and have grown tired of it, while others here finds it funny since it is new to them.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#73

Post by araes »

seanw444 wrote: post #53
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read Rubicon by Tom Holland, and honestly I came away from that book feeling like it's Sulla, not Caesar, who truly deserves the blame for the downfall of the Republic. Like yeah, Caesar crossed the Rubicon, but that seal was broken decades earlier by Sulla. If Caesar hadn't done it, someone else would have because it was clear that there would be no real consequences as long as you could win the war. And…

This is the conclusion I've come to. Societal decay causes nations with even the most solid foundations to topple. There's really no way around it. A phrase to summarize the phenomenon is: "Politics is downstream from culture." We focus too much on slapping bandaids on society through increasing bloat of government and adding more laws to the pile, when the real root of the problem is our culture is falling apart. No…

You use the phrase Societal Decay. I think you can say it has many similarities to a corpse. Not to be gross, just you get a lot of the same terms.

The country freezes in rigor mortis, and can no longer take actions.

Politics or governance often feels like its experience brain death.

You get bloat and deflating effects, bubbles that inflate and pop.

You get a lot of social events that humans would describe as "putrid".

You get flight or escape of those that can leave for a new host, others flee to the remaining healthy areas.

You have external "parasites" / enemies removing portions of the empire/nation.

The process usually results with breakup and collapse in prior body segments.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#75

Post by Jensson »

araes wrote: post #73
seanw444 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the conclusion I've come to. Societal decay causes nations with even the most solid foundations to topple. There's really no way around it. A phrase to summarize the phenomenon is: "Politics is downstream from culture." We focus too much on slapping bandaids on society through increasing bloat of government and adding more laws to the pile, when the real root of the problem is our culture is falling apart. No…

You use the phrase Societal Decay. I think you can say it has many similarities to a corpse. Not to be gross, just you get a lot of the same terms. The country freezes in rigor mortis, and can no longer take actions. Politics or governance often feels like its experience brain death. You get bloat and deflating effects, bubbles that inflate and pop. You get a lot of social events that humans would describe as "putrid…

Heart disease fits the best. Your heart is dying, it can't pump blood properly. To compensate it tries to grow larger, it swells and you get a giant heart. At some point it collapses since the problem was that the heart was leaky or the arteries got clogged or the muscles has some issue etc, growing larger can compensate in the short term but eventually you die anyway.

So it is similar to how a government that tries to grab more power and become larger is a red flag for corruption or inefficiency. The problem isn't that it tries to grow, the problem is that it is corrupt and inefficient in the first place, the country is then dying no matter what.

Countries can be replaced however, and small governments are easier to replace than large ones, so ideally should fix the government before it grows too large and powerful to easily be replaced.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#76

Post by coffeefirst »

Jensson wrote: post #46
belval wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has the be the funniest trend to come out of Tiktok. My SO point blank asked me how many times I thought about the roman empire and I replied "I don't know, once or twice a week". Little does she know we get a post from acoup every week! Reference (for those out of the loop): https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2023/09/18/how-ofte...

Why do people think that is funny? Edit: Why downvote a genuine question? How else would I learn why people find that funny?

One girl learning her dad and boyfriend are both history geeks who think about the Roman Empire all the time is not funny.

Hundreds of thousands of women realizing that unbeknownst to them ALL the men in their lives secretly think about the Roman Empire all the time is hilarious.

Of course, the more specific this phenomenon is, the funnier it is: all men think about history isn't fun. All men are thinking about the Roman Empire is pretty funny. All men are thinking about Pliny the Elder and none of the women in their lives had any idea much funnier.

This is classic benign violation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_humor#Benign_viola... The reason I think its a hit because it scales and its totally silly/fun/harmless, relatable beyond expectations, and a welcome distraction to the usual hellscape that is the internet in 2023.

---

So the next question is why is it happening, and I have two theories for this:

1. History is stranger than fiction. There's a lot of history geeks out there and there always have been. See stereotype about dads reading WWII books.

2. The Roman Empire is a gateway drug to history for a lot of people. And why not? It's a fascinating period full of whacky characters, and there's been so many movies/shows/plays/games about it that you probably already know enough to dive in and generally know to expect some togas and a dude shouting "I'm Spartacus."

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#77

Post by belval »

bee_rider wrote: post #7
Symmetry wrote: post #3

It's amazing this showed up on Hacker News before it showed up in my RSS reader.

This guy has absolutely nailed the nerdy-but-accessible vibe, no surprise his posts are recurring first-pagers.

I wish we had a Bret Devereaux for more topics, but then I might never get things done.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#78

Post by riazrizvi »

arrosenberg wrote: post #19
riazrizvi wrote: post #9

Point to Charlie Munger, whom I was critical of a few days ago, how is so much written on how the Roman Republic worked, without talking about the most basic of incentive structures that drove its citizens to work like no others in the first place - The Law of Twelve Tables? It gave every citizen property rights that were protected by the State. The system was _the_ get rich game for the common man (after Alexander r…

And look! The problems started when the wealthy Senators started hoarding land in the aftermath of the Punic and Greek conquests. The Gracchi - land reform issues! Marius - land reform issues! Caesar - land reform issues! It's as if history rhymes.

Rhymes indeed. Caesar rode a popular wave of resentment to a system that was increasingly gamed by the powerful few, and it ultimately lead to power being captured by an even more concentrated body, the office of an emperor, Augustus, Caesar’s heir.

Isn’t this the exact thing we see in the USA where the economically disadvantaged seek solutions from the right whose policies aim to further concentrate wealth and opportunity?

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#79

Post by Jensson »

jmkr wrote: post #69
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Greece was ahead of its time in philosophy and science And some would say that, philosophically, while we have the potential benefit of hindsight and therefore the opportunity to exceed the Greeks (you just need to crack open the right books), our typical modern, academic philosophy, is in many ways, inferior to it.

This is a strange comment because not only is academic philosophy built from the Greek tradition, but it is formalized. Maybe one can say it stagnated for centuries but I find it difficult to say that the work in the 20th century is inferior. I wouldn't say that about comparing Hilbert to Pythagoras, and this is not putting down history of knowledge.

Just the awareness of the scientific method makes us far superior to the ancient Greeks. Many still doesn't follow it, but basically no Greek followed it and it really shows in their works.

For problems where the scientific method doesn't help however we probably aren't that much better than the ancient Greeks, maybe we are even inferior there.

Re: How to Roman Republic, Part IV: The Senate

#80

Post by Jensson »

coffeefirst wrote: post #76
Jensson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people think that is funny? Edit: Why downvote a genuine question? How else would I learn why people find that funny?

One girl learning her dad and boyfriend are both history geeks who think about the Roman Empire all the time is not funny. Hundreds of thousands of women realizing that unbeknownst to them ALL the men in their lives secretly think about the Roman Empire all the time is hilarious. Of course, the more specific this phenomenon is, the funnier it is: all men think about history isn't fun. All men are thinking about the R…

Thanks, that explains it even better! Basically many women all over the world realized this 'weird' thing now together and that shared experience creates something magical.
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