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Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

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Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#251

Post by wkat4242 »

Arathorn wrote: post #140
wkat4242 wrote: post #129

There's no web version of element X though? It's what I use most of the time. I'll try the Android app anyway, I've been having a really annoying bug with the normal one anyway that hasn't been fixed for a year. So perhaps X doesn't have it.

Element X works pretty well on macOS as a desktop client if you have an Apple Silicon Mac. Otherwise, the big Element Web rework is yet to happen. On Android, I can almost guarantee your bug will be fixed: Element X Android doesn’t share any code with Element Android at all, as far as I know (given the former is mainly written in Rust, and the latter is all Kotlin)

Unfortunately it won't connect. I have a home server that I connect to through VPN (not reachable online and with a self signed certificate). The old element asked me to allow the self signed CA but element X says it can't connect. I wonder if this is by design?

Getting a let's encrypt cert is very difficult because my server can't get reached from the public internet. I have it that way because I use this one only for bridging and I'd like to keep it safe.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#252

Post by cvwright »

thisisabore wrote: post #247
cvwright wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I still think that the Matrix.org Foundation should have a branded client, simply called “Matrix”, available in all the major app stores. Lock it to the matrix.org server and offer membership in the foundation as an in-app purchase. Could help with some of their recent funding issues.

Do you think email should have a branded client, simply called "email" available in all the major app stores? Or XMPP have a branded client, simply called "XMPP" etc.? Align on a protocol, experiment and compete with clients is a good way to make progress.

If email was a new thing trying to break into a crowded space, then yes.

Notice how WhatsApp took off while XMPP fragmented.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#253

Post by Arathorn »

sneak wrote: post #237
inhumantsar wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security, Convenience, and Speed will always be in constant tension. If you start by assuming that a perfect solution will always be unattainable, deciding on what tradeoffs are acceptable becomes easier. Imho it almost always going to be worth trading the large PITA of self-managing APNS infra for the small surface area that routing push notifications through Elements systems.

> Imho it almost always going to be worth trading the large PITA of self-managing APNS infra for the small surface area that routing push notifications through Elements systems. Once you're going to push encrypted data through a centralized service, you might as well just run Signal and skip running the homeserver too.

Push in Matrix doesn’t contain data; it’s just a wakeup to tell the client to sync a given room & message id.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#254

Post by Arathorn »

yobid20 wrote: post #234

As someone who works for a company thats developed their own end to end conferencing stack (utilizing webrtc stack on the client side and all custom conference servers and sfu on the backend), what would be the benefits of adding Matrix support and how exactly would that be done (at a high level)? What would the benefits to users be? Trying to understand what all the hype is about here, and whether or not this would…

Using Matrix would mean:

* You get best practice audited (in the near future) end-to-end encryption

* You get decentralisation if your users want to host the stack themselves

* You get bridges to other systems (although not many FOSS voip bridges for Matrix exist today, admittedly)

* Similarly, you get an open standard API on which you and others can write bots/apps and other extensions to add new functionality, and benefit from the wider ecosystem

* You get some preexisting clients like Element Call to build on.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#255

Post by Arathorn »

wkat4242 wrote: post #251
Arathorn wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Element X works pretty well on macOS as a desktop client if you have an Apple Silicon Mac. Otherwise, the big Element Web rework is yet to happen. On Android, I can almost guarantee your bug will be fixed: Element X Android doesn’t share any code with Element Android at all, as far as I know (given the former is mainly written in Rust, and the latter is all Kotlin)

Unfortunately it won't connect. I have a home server that I connect to through VPN (not reachable online and with a self signed certificate). The old element asked me to allow the self signed CA but element X says it can't connect. I wonder if this is by design? Getting a let's encrypt cert is very difficult because my server can't get reached from the public internet. I have it that way because I use this one only f…

Right, we haven’t done TLS cert pinning or TOFU yet. Filed as https://github.com/vector-im/element-meta/issues/2073

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#257

Post by Arathorn »

Arathorn wrote: post #179
preya2k wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one: https://summit2023.matrixmeetup.de/conference/talk/AXGMEA/ Don’t think there’s a live stream. But there might be a recording afterwards.

There should be a live stream. (And I might even make it there in time to give the talk).

The livestream/recording ended up at https://youtu.be/3DhyZZjyn9c for anyone following this mini adventure :)

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#258

Post by Arathorn »

ezst wrote: post #231
brunoqc wrote: post #62

Rip matrix p2p. I wonder if they were serious about it, or if it was just vaporware (a la Musk) to get more funding. It has been announced years ago, they raised millions and they have big governments contracts. WTF is going on?

Matrix folks have been constantly over-promising and under-delivering for almost a decade now. If you've been following long enough, that should be of no surprise. Sorry for the bashing, but I got bitten once, and I see that nothing has changed in substance, so take this as a friendly word of advice: study the history of Matrix, its protocol, its implementations before committing to it seriously or for your org.

Hey, sorry that you got bitten; it must have been a catastrophic problem judging by how upset your comments are. If XMPP does what you need then I’m genuinely glad for you :)

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#259

Post by the_gipsy »

rovr138 wrote: post #199
Arathorn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that all those issues will affect sliding sync whether or not it's integrated in Synapse. In fact, some people might actually prefer the fact they can operate it separately and restart/maintain it separately from their homeserver :)

> I'm pretty sure that all those issues will affect sliding sync whether or not it's integrated in Synapse. Of course. My argument isn't that it won't happen, it's exactly the opposite, that it will. My point is that, now you need to manage 2 things vs 1. > In fact, some people might actually prefer the fact they can operate it separately and restart/maintain it separately from their homeserver :) Of course. But it's…

I'm sorry. I don't really do maintenance on my synapse either (few users, no problems), so I should have figured that usually you do, and then also for the proxy.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#260

Post by czard »

Honestly what's the point given XMPP? Tried setting up Matrix, was a pain, went for ejabberd and it was a breeze. Gajim and c0nnecteasy work perfectly. Can't help but feel like if half the efforts of building Matrix went into XEPs or something we would have a rock solid IM alternative and clients by now. And tbf, can Matrix do group video calls? That's the only really useful feature missing from XMPP now, for which there's actually a XEP that recently went into a Deferred state, for a lack of participation/experiment. So, what's the point?
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