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Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

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Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#91

Post by corethree »

jimkleiber wrote: post #43
corethree wrote: post #17

This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especia…

I wonder if the "someone who sees the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed" is related to seeing a truth and not expressing it. Lately I've really been starting to wonder if depression is the opposite of expression. Or in other words, instead of pushing feelings/thoughts out (ex-press), we push them down (de-press). I can say from my experience when I feel very confident that I see what's happ…

No it's not specifically about what you're talking about. People are literally being delusional here. There's a ton science behind this phenomenon. You can listen to that podcast it's quite interesting.

Basically they can do quantitative experiments where they have groups of people rate others about how attractive they are 1-10 and through this gather an average rating about someones attractiveness.

Then they have those people who were rated, rate themselves. Of course they also measure for happiness too. Turns out the less happy you are, the more accurately you rated yourself in turns of attractiveness.

What I described is just one experiment out of many trying to measure this phenomenon of self deception. It is completely consistent in most experiments. Almost every single one results in a positive correlation between happiness and self-deception.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#92

Post by corethree »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #31
corethree wrote: post #17

This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especia…

I am a high functioning depressive, or possibly not depressed at all, I think I am uniquely qualified to speak to the psychology of non-self deception while still being a "high performance" individual, especially compared to my co-hort of "defective children". I was born with heart defects, so during my formative years I was on restricted activities and was constantly confronted with the futility of life, the imminen…

Yeah see. Part of your existential problems arise from the fact that you're too honest with yourself.

You realize most people don't think religion is evil? How could others come to a completely different conclusion than you? It's because of self deception. They believe an interpretation of religion that best fits their lifestyle. That's the point. You didn't do that.

>I think people fight very hard to ignore death, that's why existential moments find them in bed at night or when they are alone and quiet with their thoughts.

No you're just projecting. I think people nearer to death fight this thought. But people farther from death easily don't think about it. It's easy for most people not to think about it at all... but not when it's constantly thrown in their face. That's why your friend got pissed at u You're basically exposing his self-deception. He doesn't want to think of that shit.

I think if you want to make yourself happier you need to get stupider. Stop thinking about these things. Distract yourself with something you can get lost with so you can't think about things. Surround yourself with yes-men who lie to you, avoid the truth.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#93

Post by corethree »

kykeonaut wrote: post #30
corethree wrote: post #17

This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especia…

I feel that a sign of being a good programmer is recognizing you are not a good programmer. Then again, this is not me, but Socrates speaking.

Bro, this sounds like rationalizing. You realize you're not a good programmer and you try to rationalize that realization with this quote.

Quotes like these are huge indicators of self deception. I mean it may be true, but usually the only person who cares for these quotes are the ones who have a strong desire to believe that it applies to them.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#94

Post by wruza »

nvarsj wrote: post #83
jongjong wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go w…

Unsure why you’re being downvoted - bizarre. Anyways, I agree completely. Life long struggle with anxiety and depression. Most of my issues come from ignoring my worst feelings and not dealing with them. I find the idea of suppressing feelings to be bizarre for treating clinical issues. Maybe that’s why mindfulness only ever provided me temporary relief.

I believe there are different types or modes of thinking. Some tend to avoid negativity, others live through it to anchor in reality.

Also, maybe it’s subjective, but all my friends who are negative-aware and embrace cynicism (not necessarily follow it) have much better sense of real life and of characters than all my friends who believe in all good things and are optimists. The former tend to be business people, the latter are all hired workers.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#95

Post by corethree »

99_00 wrote: post #28
corethree wrote: post #17

This has been known among psychologist for awhile now. In fact someone who is too honest, someone who see's the truth of the world is more likely to be clinically depressed. https://radiolab.org/podcast/91618-lying-to-ourselves This podcast from radiolab really changed my perspective on the concept. Pretty much if you're not depressed, most likely some aspect of you is delusional. I would say people on HN are especia…

You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things. I say that we aren't. And given that, you are better off believing the lie that helps you or makes you feel good instead of the one that hurts you, assuming both have the same predictive power.

> You seem to be suggesting that humans are capable of perceive objective truth for non trivial things.

I believe that for situations where a single human has enough information and ability to ascertain the truth, most humans deliberately will not make a beeline for the truth. They sort of veer off to the side towards a half truth that better suits their situation. None of this is a conscious choice though.

Self deception is completely orthogonal to our ability to ascertain the actual truth. As I said even if we were magically gifted this ability, most choose not to use that ability.

Of course this quality lives on a gradient, some people are really good at self deception, others are really bad at it.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#96

Post by kristjank »

mdp2021 wrote: post #89

Somehow relevant piece of art, .gif animation, from Portuguese artist André Carrilho. Title: Bad memories https://cdn.myportfolio.com/453a92f80b154a9480bc9e2ebcb57c99...

That's a great piece of art, but maybe a content warning for gore-y content would be in order.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#97

Post by fellowniusmonk »

corethree wrote: post #92
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a high functioning depressive, or possibly not depressed at all, I think I am uniquely qualified to speak to the psychology of non-self deception while still being a "high performance" individual, especially compared to my co-hort of "defective children". I was born with heart defects, so during my formative years I was on restricted activities and was constantly confronted with the futility of life, the imminen…

Yeah see. Part of your existential problems arise from the fact that you're too honest with yourself. You realize most people don't think religion is evil? How could others come to a completely different conclusion than you? It's because of self deception. They believe an interpretation of religion that best fits their lifestyle. That's the point. You didn't do that. >I think people fight very hard to ignore death, t…

Very good advice :) and that's fair, avoidance isn't necessarily hard work.

And, as it turns out I'm perfectly content these days if that didn't come through in my first post.

We're all already so stupid by default... if we really stop and admit it to ourselves, even the smartest among us barely know anything at all. I find that extraordinarily exciting, I'm glad I was born during a hockey stick period of growth in knowledge and technology.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#98

Post by camillomiller »

captainbland wrote: post #54

I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT encourages you to redirect existing negative thoughts in a positive/constructive direction - ultimately steering you away from or undermining the original negative thought - but does not encourage you to do a deep dive on it. Not to mention that Freud was a qu…

> Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand.

Wow, that’s rich. Dismissing Freud like this is the most egregious way of conducting a discussion about these topics. Have you also ever thought that Mindfulness and CBT, while effective, are successful in a capitalistic society because ultimately convince us we can change to accept the fundamentals shortcomings and toxicities and inhumane dysfunctions of capitalism? Freud’s take on the mind was revolutionary, Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon in favor of the preservation of the status quo by convincing us we are just wrong in a perfectly fine environment (which in reality is not fine at all).

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#99

Post by saberience »

nvarsj wrote: post #83
jongjong wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with suppressing negative thoughts in the long run is that, eventually, reality may force you to confront them all at once and under far more difficult conditions. I'm a strong believer that you have to confront negative thoughts and resolve underlying issues as soon as they arise and not neglect them and tell yourself that everything is going to be OK. It's not going to be OK. Murphy's law; what can go w…

Unsure why you’re being downvoted - bizarre. Anyways, I agree completely. Life long struggle with anxiety and depression. Most of my issues come from ignoring my worst feelings and not dealing with them. I find the idea of suppressing feelings to be bizarre for treating clinical issues. Maybe that’s why mindfulness only ever provided me temporary relief.

It depends a great deal on the nature of the negative thought.

For example: spending hours obsessively thinking about death and dying and infinite nothingness isn’t helpful in my opinion.

But avoiding thinking about a mole you might want to get checked out at the doctor is a bad idea.

Re: Suppressing negative thoughts may be good for mental health after all

#100

Post by scns »

camillomiller wrote: post #98
captainbland wrote: post #54

I suppose it wouldn't be that surprising. Mindfulness for instance teaches you to "let go" of thoughts - which is really just a gentle form of suppression. CBT encourages you to redirect existing negative thoughts in a positive/constructive direction - ultimately steering you away from or undermining the original negative thought - but does not encourage you to do a deep dive on it. Not to mention that Freud was a qu…

> Not to mention that Freud was a quack who was more prone to speculation than to science, so if traditional psychotherapy is based on his work then it is likely built on sand. Wow, that’s rich. Dismissing Freud like this is the most egregious way of conducting a discussion about these topics. Have you also ever thought that Mindfulness and CBT, while effective, are successful in a capitalistic society because ultima…

> Mindfulness and CBT have a solid ground but have become a strong weapon

Have to disagree. A weapon is for fighting, and as Siddhartha Gautama said: "What you fight becomes stronger." They are tools IMHO that can help you, if you invest time and effort.

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