Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month • Hacker News Board

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#271

Post by macNchz » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:24 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #79

svaha1728 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you evaluate Kagi make sure to play around with the "Personalized Results" settings. I find as a programmer, I love the ability to push blogs and resources I like up to the top of the list. You can check out the leaderboard to see, globally what sites get blocked or raised: https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard

#4 pinned is hacker news!!! So clearly big crossover between HN fans and kagi. 8,629 Members. Top Blocked (from most blocked): pinterest.com/.co.uk/.ca/.de/.fr/.com.au/.es facebook.com foxnews.com tiktok.com quora.com w3schools.com breitbart.com dailymail.co.uk appsloveworld.com instagram.com githubplus.com geeksforgeeks.org libhunt.com twitter.com msn.com healthline.com solveforum.com 9to5answer.com alternativeto.ne…

Interesting to see reddit on the block list, I have issues with the way they’ve been operating but I do often find myself explicitly adding site:reddit.com to google searches, since it seems like one of few places online where there is still non-sponsored conversation about diverse topics. RIP old-school forums.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#272

Post by vunderba » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:25 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #75

gardenhedge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so is that better than using the chatgpt subscription?

Much better imo and much cheaper unless you do 200 chats per day or something :P Why is it better? More integration capabilities. You're not limited to the webpage and app, you can use it anywhere you want. Not constantly kicking me out to log in again every few days (their web does this). The ability to select the model and temperature (a measure of how creative the LLM is). Also the default model seems to be much m…

If you're even a moderate user of chatGPT, the equivalent cost of using the smallest GPT4 model would run you a hell of a lot more. Let's actually run the numbers.

The cost of the GPT-4 API is ballpark around $0.05 / 1000 tokens. If you want to include a rolling context window, you will easily hit 1000+ tokens if not a huge amount more.

ChatGPT pro gives you 50 GPT-4 queries every three hours. If you're using it all day you might average about 100 daily queries. Using a dedicated GPT4 API would run you approximately five dollars a day for the same thing - that's $150 a month as opposed to flat cost of $20.

How hard is it to hit 100 queries in a day? Pretty damn easy when you realize that most queries aren't usually standalone - instead they involve a back and forth approach which necessitates a rolling context window and you explore the problem space.

When a query (plus back and forth) might cost as much as $0.25, paying for GPT-4 via the API would only net you a whopping 80-100 queries per month before you exceeded the cost of a pro subscription.

The API certainly has its advantages over the web based ChatGPT, but price is definitely not one of them.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#273

Post by aquova » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:26 PM UTC

VHRanger wrote: post #193

rjh29 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you sound like someone who should not be using Windows in any way shape or form. The telemetry and lack of control? Try Linux out.

The only lockin I have remaining to windows is video games really

Even as recently as 2021, I still kept around a Windows partition for the occasional game that wouldn't run on Proton. I was still able to play the majority of what I wanted, but brand new titles often required patches after release, or some games would crash on occasion.

Now? I haven't even thought about compatibility in months. I don't even look at the user tweaks anymore, when it used to be a constant factor. Granted, I don't play multiplayer games with anticheat, which last I heard was still a lingering issue. Your mileage may vary, but I completely removed my Windows partition a while ago, and haven't even thought about since.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#274

Post by u2077 » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:28 PM UTC

rkagerer wrote: post #160

Can someone offer some history on Kagi? It's founder / roots? I'm curious. Also what specific features are in the mysterious Ultimate plan? And what was the domain before it was a search engine? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12200972 Thanks!

https://help.kagi.com/orion/company/history.html

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#275

Post by kstrauser » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:29 PM UTC

b8 wrote: post #266

I tried Kagi when it was in beta, and I couldn't tell the different between other search indexers like You (you.com) or Searx. I emailed Dimitri telling them about my concerns with a subscription base search index model and they replied, "You are either used by your search engines or you pay to be free" (paraphrasing). However, there's non privacy comprising ways to do ads. I doubt a large number of people will be wi…

> Especially when there's FLOSS alternatives.

I'd guess there are more people willing to pay a little than maintain the FOSS alternatives themselves. I ran my own mailserver for a couple decades, then found myself at a place where I have more pocket change than free time and started paying someone else to manage the hassle for me. That's where I am here, too. It's worth it for me to pay $10 per month to get Kagi's benefits without having to do it myself.

Apparently they believe there are enough people in that boat to make it a worthwhile business plan.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#276

Post by rafram » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

At launch, if I remember correctly, Kagi relied on the Google Search API. The poor economics of that decision were a big part of why it was so expensive. Has that changed?

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#277

Post by iruoy » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

yazzku wrote: post #242

egonschiele wrote: post #206

A lot of comments mention privacy. Could someone explain who can see my searches at Kagi? My experience working at startups is that companies are very lax with customer PII. With a product like this, I have to assume every engineer at Kagi can see every search I make.

As far as I can tell, the "privacy" here is based entirely on trust and on the promise that they don't log searches and other PII on the account that their business model doesn't need that information. Creating an account linked to payment details and your searches is otherwise a red flag. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html https://kagi.com/privacy

Doesn't that go for almost all paid web services? At least the incentive is low, and the potential backlash is high.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#278

Post by g_p » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

jwmcq wrote: post #56

boringg wrote: post #11

I think Kagi sounds interesting but the business model is a tough one outside of niche HN types. E.g. I am interested but can't be bothered to pursue it as it seems like an unnecessary additional SAS model cost to my monthly budget. How does search quality really change my life? Entrenched behavior is tough to overcome especially ostensibly free products.

> How does search quality really change my life? Ask this to someone who remembers when Google first appeared. I am not a Kagi user, but am seriously considering it after a number of months having to dig through at least 8 results of paywalled or possibly AI-generated pages for almost every Google query; seriously, I just did a search for 'python concatenate list' on google and it was worse than I expected - the offi…

Just tried that same query without the quote marks on Kagi.

The first result is an info box from Stack Overflow showing use of the + operator to join two lists (with a link to source).

Then 4 more relevant SO posts (which are more nuanced and specific than the generic query, like concatenating into a single string, or concatenating without creating a copy.

Then a small inset box as a "blast from the past" with 4 older blog posts, at least 2 of which look pretty relevant here just from the title.

Then 5 more SO posts (again more nuanced and specific variants of the underlying question), and a digital ocean post on 6 ways to concatenate a list in Python.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#279

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:35 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #79

svaha1728 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you evaluate Kagi make sure to play around with the "Personalized Results" settings. I find as a programmer, I love the ability to push blogs and resources I like up to the top of the list. You can check out the leaderboard to see, globally what sites get blocked or raised: https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard

#4 pinned is hacker news!!! So clearly big crossover between HN fans and kagi. 8,629 Members. Top Blocked (from most blocked): pinterest.com/.co.uk/.ca/.de/.fr/.com.au/.es facebook.com foxnews.com tiktok.com quora.com w3schools.com breitbart.com dailymail.co.uk appsloveworld.com instagram.com githubplus.com geeksforgeeks.org libhunt.com twitter.com msn.com healthline.com solveforum.com 9to5answer.com alternativeto.ne…

I'm ... surprised and have mixed emotions that though msn.com is listed, no Yahoo domains make any of the blocked / raised / lowered / pinned lists. I'm reading that as a sign of total irrelevance.

Re: Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month

#280

Post by prepend » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:35 PM UTC

dbrueck wrote: post #175

prepend wrote: post #100

I wish there was a way to just buy 10,000 searches as a block and charge down against it. I don’t search that much. I don’t want another monthly service fee. But I love the idea of paying for search. Id happily pay $5 for 300 searches, but don’t want to do that every month. This seems like the buffet or gym model where they want people just mindlessly paying and then not using it that much.

I hear you, but it's also really hard from the service provider's perspective because - for many people at least - the allotment of searches starts to become a hinderance on using it. By making it feel a finite resource, some percentage of the users will start to ration their use of your service and/or do some deliberation before using it ("I kinda want to look that up, but I don't know if I want to spend one of my s…

I get that it’s hard, but figure it out.

Amazon doesn’t make me subscribe and I can buy 100 hours and use them over 10 years for all they care. I’ve had monthly bills that are a penny from glacier.

I don’t think this pricing is because it’s hard on Kagi. I think it’s a dark pattern that once people subscribe they just autopay forever. My dad subscribed to dial up aol until last year. He hasn’t had a phone line for 15 years.

You think kagi is going to not charge people if they do zero searches?

They’ve already made it a finite resource by charging $5/month for 300 searches. I’m already rationing. They’re just saying it’s $5 if you do 1 or 300. There’s already friction. But friction to dark pattern you into paying more.

I mean it’s their prerogative and they can charge whatever they want.

I just don’t want another monthly fee. I’d rather just pay once and be done. Sell search tokens or something.