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Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#241

Post by XorNot »

jstarfish wrote: post #225
thiht wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there so many loopholes in every single US law? Everytime there’s a major health issue or anything extremely anti consumer it’s because of a loophole in the formulation of a US law. Are US lawmakers that bad? Or is it judges who interpret laws literally instead of using the intent?

People shit on California's Proposition 65, but the notices at Fry's made me aware of the lead content of solder, and the ones at Michael's highlighted the lead in Christmas decorations, lights, and fake trees/garland. I went most of my life ignorant of all of this. But banning stuff outright seems like it would be counterproductive to either industry (banning soldering would be disruptive) or public image ("Liberals…

Lead-free solder exists though. It works fine - particularly for plumbing where you don't have tin-whisker concerns.

The only problem I've ever had with it is (1) that it turns out Bunnings in Australia sells utterly atrocious flux (the good stuff is also non-toxic, potable compatible and made in USA - and it works perfectly) and (2) that people aren't aware enough of the problem (i.e. my parents house has lead solder all through the plumbing where my father didn't know there was a difference and extended it).

EDIT: For any Australians out there - this one - https://www.totaltools.com.au/154135-la-co-56g-soldering-flu... - buy this one. This is the one which works.

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#242

Post by rightbyte »

jhallenworld wrote: post #193
jstarfish wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no idea it was unsafe to drink from green garden hoses until it was pointed out by an RV salesman trying to sell me a white hose for potable water-- in my 20s. I thought he was full of shit, but I was proven wrong. Hot water lines can't be the only loophole causing lead ingestion.

Interesting, I had no idea (I thought only the fittings would have lead, but it's the hose material): https://toxicfreefuture.org/press-room/new-study-rates-best-...

Dear mother no why? Why does the Home Depot garden hoose have 6.8% led in it ...

All these small environmental dangers add up. And they are so hard to keep track of. I would never suspect a water hoose to contain led. Let alone 6.8%.

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#243

Post by ClumsyPilot »

londons_explore wrote: post #183
tredre3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of copper-lined PEX, can you tell me more?

I think op may be referring to 'barrier pipe', which is a plastic -copper-plastic sandwich, which is designed to keep out pollutants which can diffuse through the plastic - eg. Diesel oil. If you don't use it for underground water pipes in cities, you'll normally get complaints from homeowners about 'chemical smelling' water, particularly first thing in the morning when water has been sitting stationary in pipes all…

oh dear i forgot that plastics are permeable to petrochemicals lile paper is to water

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#244

Post by XorNot »

brianwawok wrote: post #114
cj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are we going to do? Pass a law? Yes! It wouldn't burden existing homeowners because such laws almost always grandfather in existing structures. When they banned lead paint and asbestos, I don't think anyone immediately repainted their walls or replaced their asbestos drywall. It slowly phases out over a number of decades.

> When they banned lead paint and asbestos, I don't think anyone immediately repainted their walls or replaced their asbestos drywall. It slowly phases out over a number of decades. Kinda. Or, rich people got it replaced right away. Poor people are still living it with it today. Go test a $500k and a $100k (this is midwest price not SF price) house for Lead and Asbestos. I bet you find very different results on the a…

Inequality isn't an argument against taking the necessary regulatory measures, it's an argument to work on the inequality (or subsidize the retrofits).

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#245

Post by XorNot »

Syonyk wrote: post #95
rkagerer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of argument that lead-free solder isn't as good (or easy to use) and several hobbyists still use leaded solder.

Have you ever tried the lead free stuff as compared to a good 60/40 or something like that? It's horrid to use. And the lead-free stuff is far worse in manufactured equipment - how many devices have failed early due to BGA solder joint failures that basically didn't exist before RoHS requirements? I think the nVidia 8600M issues were traced to that, and plenty of other BGA equipment since 2006 or so has failed rather…

Your hobby really isn't worth breathing lungfuls of leaded-solder fumes. Manufacturing is done by robot, not you sitting over a desk (said as someone who was doing this till I realized it myself).

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#246

Post by deepsun »

cj wrote: post #143
brianwawok wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they banned lead paint and asbestos, I don't think anyone immediately repainted their walls or replaced their asbestos drywall. It slowly phases out over a number of decades. Kinda. Or, rich people got it replaced right away. Poor people are still living it with it today. Go test a $500k and a $100k (this is midwest price not SF price) house for Lead and Asbestos. I bet you find very different results on the a…

My grandmother's house still has asbestos in it ($400k house in New York). Short of tearing her house down and building a new one there's no way to fix that, but decades later I'm benefitting from the ban by living in an asbestos-free house built after the ban. Gotta start somewhere even if the benefit isn't felt by everyone at the same exact point in time. It would definitely benefit the rich first since they tend t…

There's zero harm from asbestos as long as you don't mess with it. Your grandmother is safe.

Tearing her house down, on the other hand, can actually be bad for her, if she's staying near it while they mess with her asbestos.

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#247

Post by sokoloff »

londons_explore wrote: post #189
jeffbee wrote: post #4

There have always been people on this site who think RoHS was a conspiracy. There are a few people who do not take the public health problems caused by lead very seriously.

In the last year, how many tons of lead ended up in solder? And how much has gone into fuels (especially aviation fuel)?

The EPA estimate for avgas is roughly 500-600 tons of lead annually (depending on the exact estimation factors used).

I found an estimate of lead from e-waste (all sources of lead, not just solder) being 58,000 tons per year, roughly 100x the avgas figure.

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#248

Post by CyberDildonics »

sandworm101 wrote: post #139
hedora wrote: post #6

I'd like to point out that, although it is illegal to put lead in water supply lines in the US, there is a loophole that allows it in hot water lines. As a result, for certain fittings, most big-box hardware stores only sell the leaded variants, and label them "hot water heater supply line" or something similar.

A few feet of hot water pipes in fittings won't create a problem. Think of the thousands of feet of pipe that water runs through, where it often sits for days, then spends a fraction of a second in a tap or shower nozzle. Worried? Just run the tap for half a second before drinking.

That doesn't make any sense. Half a second is barely enough time for water to move through the hose from the wall to the faucet.

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#249

Post by georgeg23 »

hinkley wrote: post #178
jstarfish wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no idea it was unsafe to drink from green garden hoses until it was pointed out by an RV salesman trying to sell me a white hose for potable water-- in my 20s. I thought he was full of shit, but I was proven wrong. Hot water lines can't be the only loophole causing lead ingestion.

When I moved I did a search not only for garden hose without lead but also without phthalates and BPA. There are a few goodun’s out there. Expensive though, but I also have hose connections that don’t leak because tolerances and decent seals.

In particular I would recommend the ELEY Garden Hose

Re: Lead poisoning causes more death, IQ loss than thought: study

#250

Post by sokoloff »

the__alchemist wrote: post #192
jeffbee wrote: post #4

There have always been people on this site who think RoHS was a conspiracy. There are a few people who do not take the public health problems caused by lead very seriously.

I have a conspiracy theory that people recommending leaded solder (And reacting hostilely to suggestions it may be dangerous) are demonstrating the effects of lead exposure. I don't buy the "just wash your hands" argument.

I don't think leaded solder is dangerous to the home hobbyist, provided reasonable precautions are taken (no food, drinks, or smokes on the bench and wash your hands immediately upon getting up from the bench).

If you're repairing something that used leaded solder, you pretty much have to use leaded solder. That's fewer and fewer things post-RoHS, but when you have something older, you're going to use leaded or you're going to have a bad time.

With a decent iron and flux, hand soldering with lead-free solder is fine. All my new work is lead-free, but I have zero concerns having my kids work with leaded solder at the frequency and using the reasonable precautions.

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