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LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

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Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#51

Post by ethansinjin »

bhouston wrote: post #42

This project seems like an architect just gave up and said fine, you get an enum value for any relationship you can think of, what do people want? And this was one suggestion. This enum could have been replaced with data model where you set of a bunch of relationship links: Relationship: - type: parent (up), child (down), sibling (sideways) - gender: male, female, ... I am confused by the "younger" denotation, becaus…

I think this was motivated by non-English languages which have separate terms for different relations than English?

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#52

Post by gkbrk »

1propionyl wrote: post #29
karelpeeters wrote: post #11

What value does this label have for English localization?

It doesn't. But after all English speakers are only a small (<5%) minority of the world.

English is the most commonly spoken language in the world, followed closely by Chinese.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#53

Post by duskwuff »

mulmen wrote: post #8

Why though? Where does this actually get used? This seems to represent two different relationships. The mother’s sibling could be a brother. For the father a sister is specified. What about the father’s brother’s younger daughter? The description says younger daughter in both cases but the name doesn’t specify. So what’s the class for the older daughter of the mother’s sibling or the father’s sister? And if age is re…

> Why though? Where does this actually get used?

Many Asian cultures, including Chinese, have a wider variety of kinship terms than English. The (unwieldy) name of this constant describes one such relationship which doesn't have a direct equivalent in English.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#54

Post by bhouston »

klausa wrote: post #49
bhouston wrote: post #42

This project seems like an architect just gave up and said fine, you get an enum value for any relationship you can think of, what do people want? And this was one suggestion. This enum could have been replaced with data model where you set of a bunch of relationship links: Relationship: - type: parent (up), child (down), sibling (sideways) - gender: male, female, ... I am confused by the "younger" denotation, becaus…

Making software that works across cultures (and especially _as many_ cultures as Apple's software does) is difficult. I guarantee you that every single one of those enum cases exists, because there is a language/culture where there is a specific word to describe that relationship; not "because an architect gave up".

I didn't know there were words for those in other languages. I guess I'd still prefer an expressive composable model for them so that I could reason about them. At least know who is related to who in which way, rather than these enums. But I guess that is outside of the scope for Apple - they just want that short name in the UX somewhere when adding a contact.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#55

Post by jandrese »

Dark Helmet:

  Before you die there is something you should know about us, Lone Star.
Lone Starr:

  What?
Dark Helmet:

  I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
Lone Starr:

  What's that make us?
Dark Helmet:

  Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#56

Post by saagarjha »

mulmen wrote: post #34
klausa wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different words in different languages for those specific relationships; and some languages lack a "generic" words like "cousin" that you could use in English without knowing the relationship details. I'm not a speaker, but someone once explained to me that for example in Farsi, you can't just refer to someone's "cousin", without knowing the person's gender _and_ the two related parents genders.

Ok so this is for i18n and in English would just be “cousin”? Can we assume there actually is a language somewhere that makes this particular distinction and has a word for it?

Yes.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#58

Post by [deleted] »

jandrese wrote: post #55

Dark Helmet: Before you die there is something you should know about us, Lone Star. Lone Starr: What? Dark Helmet: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. Lone Starr: What's that make us? Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become.

[deleted]

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#59

Post by secretsatan »

bhouston wrote: post #54
klausa wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making software that works across cultures (and especially _as many_ cultures as Apple's software does) is difficult. I guarantee you that every single one of those enum cases exists, because there is a language/culture where there is a specific word to describe that relationship; not "because an architect gave up".

I didn't know there were words for those in other languages. I guess I'd still prefer an expressive composable model for them so that I could reason about them. At least know who is related to who in which way, rather than these enums. But I guess that is outside of the scope for Apple - they just want that short name in the UX somewhere when adding a contact.

Localizing, this falls into the things you thought about x are true.

This is the end result of a bunch of switches and ifs in a ui where your model, in very specific circumstances, boils down to a few words that most people understand without computer programming experience.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#60

Post by kulahan »

teruakohatu wrote: post #3
Apocryphon wrote: post #2

Chinese kinship labels for the win https://blog.tutorabcchinese.com/chinese-learning-tips/famil...

That is interesting. In many English speaking cultures children will informally refear to their mother's parents and father's parents by different names even if formally they are both "grandmother", "grandfather" or "grandparent". I like that in China they formalised the names.

The list is blowing my mind. A word for your mom's sibling's daughter if she's older than you, and another one if she's younger? What a dense piece of data!
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