Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

rollingstone.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 53 posts

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#41

Post by fragmede »

moralestapia wrote: post #40
crunchyfrog wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, what do you call it when someone tries to conceal the origin of money?

>what do you call it when someone tries to conceal the origin of money? Maybe just "concealing the origin of money"? Btw, in your scenario you actually left a public, immutable record of the transaction, which is pretty much the opposite of what somebody engaging in this activity (i.e. not LARPing) would want to. Money laundering has to do with turning so-called "black money" into clean money. In your example, that i…

If it's not happening, why do the Fed's seize popular crypto tumblers, like Bitcoin Fog, Helix, ChipMixer, and BestMixer.io?

If you think the NFT marketplace crashing resulting in monetary loss is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#42

Post by baobabKoodaa »

enterprise_cog wrote: post #28
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When nobody sells an NFT, "journalists" write articles like this one claiming their "market cap" is "zero dollars". When somebody does sell an NFT, shrug it off as a wash trade.

You didn’t answer the question.

The question was not addressed to me.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#43

Post by baobabKoodaa »

EA-3167 wrote: post #27
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When nobody sells an NFT, "journalists" write articles like this one claiming their "market cap" is "zero dollars". When somebody does sell an NFT, shrug it off as a wash trade.

That's true, but I think you're missing the context that NFT's are in fact intrinsically worthless and merely a vehicle for scammers and the terminally gullible. NFT's have shown for a while now what they're really about, as have the people promoting them. It isn't really journalists' fault for no longer trusting "the system" to be honest or even capable of honesty. At this point I wouldn't believe a sale is legit wi…

I'm fully aware that most NFTs are worthless. I never claimed otherwise. I was merely observing the faulty logic of collecting "evidence" for a position with this kind of "heads i win, tails you lose" tomfoolery.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#44

Post by moralestapia »

fragmede wrote: post #41
moralestapia wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what do you call it when someone tries to conceal the origin of money? Maybe just "concealing the origin of money"? Btw, in your scenario you actually left a public, immutable record of the transaction, which is pretty much the opposite of what somebody engaging in this activity (i.e. not LARPing) would want to. Money laundering has to do with turning so-called "black money" into clean money. In your example, that i…

If it's not happening, why do the Fed's seize popular crypto tumblers, like Bitcoin Fog, Helix, ChipMixer, and BestMixer.io? If you think the NFT marketplace crashing resulting in monetary loss is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Please enlighten us @fragmede, did any of those mixers processed NFTs?

>If you think [...] is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals

Huh? Feels kind of dumb that I have to type this but ok, here you go, "No. I do not think this is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals".

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#45

Post by enterprise_cog »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #42
enterprise_cog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t answer the question.

The question was not addressed to me.

Usually when you respond to a post you address what is in the post. Posting that you think it’s a stupid question adds nothing to the discussion. Doubly so when you don’t bother to present an alternative way to look at it.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#46

Post by baobabKoodaa »

enterprise_cog wrote: post #45
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was not addressed to me.

Usually when you respond to a post you address what is in the post. Posting that you think it’s a stupid question adds nothing to the discussion. Doubly so when you don’t bother to present an alternative way to look at it.

Ok. Let me spell out explicitly what I already implied.

First, it wasn't a stupid question. How do you know some NFT trades aren't just wash trades? We don't know! It's hard to know that due to the non fungible nature of NFTs.

Second, it was not a genuine question; it was a rhetorical question with an implication that surely, surely, any NFT trades at high prices or whatnot must have been wash trades. I don't agree with this implication.

When you have non fungible assets which rarely trade, it's very difficult to establish what they're worth (or, "what they would sell for", to avoid a detour about intrinsic value).

An NFT can sit a long time in someone's wallet without any trades and it's hard to say if it would sell for $5, $5000, or not find a buyer at any price.

Likewise, an NFT can be traded multiple times at ever-higher prices and it will be difficult as an outsider to establish wether those trades are wash trades or not.

I'm saying it's difficult to establish what the market price for these NFTs is. This is an alternate way of looking at things. The original story was that some people proclaimed they determined the market price for some collections of tokens and confidently concluded that that price was zero. That's ludacrious; nobody trades anything at zero. Either the volume crashed to nothing, or the price was at some level above zero. In any case, I disagree with the premise that it's feasible to measure the market price for illiquid collections of tokens.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#47

Post by fragmede »

moralestapia wrote: post #44
fragmede wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not happening, why do the Fed's seize popular crypto tumblers, like Bitcoin Fog, Helix, ChipMixer, and BestMixer.io? If you think the NFT marketplace crashing resulting in monetary loss is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Please enlighten us @fragmede, did any of those mixers processed NFTs? >If you think [...] is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals Huh? Feels kind of dumb that I have to type this but ok, here you go, "No. I do not think this is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals".

I don't know where I claimed those particular mixers mixed for NFTs.

My point was that mixers, used for "concealing the origin of money", have been sized for money laundering.

The criminals tried some crypto shit to launder their money. It didn't work. Ah well, back to buying car washing shops for them.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#48

Post by gmerc »

moralestapia wrote: post #19
gmerc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money laundering is always in demand.

People always parrot "money laundering" when they see (what for them are) large amounts of money moving around. Can you explain how does one launder money w/ NFTs? Because it's absolute nonsense.

Run an exchange. have people wash trade back and forth. Siphons.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#49

Post by mariusor »

nomel wrote: post #32
andrewflnr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mindless dismissal of hyped technology is no smarter than mindless adoption. Generative AI demonstrably has utility. It's here to stay, no matter how much we hate it.

People hate it? What are some reasons?

Because it's noise. Finding good art on the internet is already hard with just humans producing it, when the barrier to entry is crafting a prompt, the amount of shitty end-results will drown everything else out. And this is before considering the point of view of the artists that get their work incorporated in the training corpus without being paid.

Re: NFTs Are – Finally – Worthless

#50

Post by moralestapia »

fragmede wrote: post #47
moralestapia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please enlighten us @fragmede, did any of those mixers processed NFTs? >If you think [...] is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals Huh? Feels kind of dumb that I have to type this but ok, here you go, "No. I do not think this is the first time a business deal has gone wrong between criminals".

I don't know where I claimed those particular mixers mixed for NFTs. My point was that mixers, used for "concealing the origin of money", have been sized for money laundering. The criminals tried some crypto shit to launder their money. It didn't work. Ah well, back to buying car washing shops for them.

>I don't know where I claimed those particular mixers mixed for NFTs.

I also think you're very confused, as the topic being discussed is money laundering with NFTs.

Cryptocurrency != NFTs, you know that, right?

Post reply on HN