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Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#131

Post by milesvp »

intelVISA wrote: post #43
JKCalhoun wrote: post #22

Having been an engineer interviewing other engineers applying to work for Apple (for 26 years) I can tell you that the best resume was one where the engineer shipped code. Degree became a non-issue if that box was checked.

So any SWE with >0 YOE?

you’d be surprised. I was just talking with a former coworker said that their team has essentially shipped nothing for 9 months due to changing priorities. Code was written, and merge requests were merged, but feature flags meant that no one ever saw the effects of the changes.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#132

Post by logicalmonster »

moralestapia wrote: post #114
logicalmonster wrote: post #107

Just curious. Why are you so motivated by getting into a FAANG company?

Big salary and a CV boost? Come on monster, be a bit more logical ...

My question is very logical. We can all hypothesize plenty of reasons, a couple of which you mentioned, but knowing specifically why OP values employment with FAANG might help provide better life advice.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#133

Post by hyperhello »

gorjusborg wrote: post #111
l33t7332273 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment. Something about the phrase “the bleeding edge of tech (AI)” is just very off putting.

It is that perfect combination of over-confidence and lack of understanding that often veils insecurity and incompetence. Screams Dunning-Kruger effect. Again, I also have nothing against the person here, it is the behavior that is a red flag.

Dunning-Kruger didn’t mean what you’re assuming it to.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#134

Post by jmye »

morelisp wrote: post #85
meneer_oke wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?

I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and…

Are you saying a Harvard CS degree isn’t a thorough education? Or are you assuming that everyone at Harvard pays full freight?

I don’t get the elitism or why you think someone with a degree from a specific school is inherently stupid. That’s as weird as refusing to hire non-formally educated people.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#135

Post by smcl »

jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #58
smcl wrote: post #31

Genuine question: why are you focused on just those five companies?

Apologies for being unclear. I really just mean the big tech sector. I'm looking at jobs outside of FAANG. I am just used to using the term FAANG to refer to big tech as a whole.

No worries, just wanted to check because I wanted to advise you to broaden your horizons a bit because that’s a fairly narrow collection of countries. But all good.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#136

Post by gorjusborg »

a_vanderbilt wrote: post #130
gorjusborg wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I group cert-seekers together. I don't see motivation mattering. People who have time to 'prove' their knowledge/skill are really just showing that they aren't really into the thing, they are into being recognized as being into the thing. The exceptions are certifications that are required by law.

I feel it's a bit more nuanced. If someone is early in their career and they have some decent certs (CCNA, RHCSA, Sec+) then I see it as a positive. What really matters is how they present that knowledge. As you have alluded to, a lot of candidates just memorize and regurgitate to get the cert. Unfortunately, at big firms the resume robots filter out plenty of great candidates simply because they lack ITIL or some ot…

> Unfortunately, at big firms the resume robots filter out plenty of great candidates simply because they lack ITIL or some other kind of useless cert. They don't get a chance to show off what they know.

Fair enough.

If someone it doing it satisfy a bureaucratic machine, I'll suspend judgement. If they think that makes them actually better than someone who actually does the thing, hard pass. It's usually pretty easy to tell where people fall based on their general behavior.

I don't care about who someone is, or where they to school. I care about what they can do. Certs don't show any of that.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#137

Post by moralestapia »

logicalmonster wrote: post #132
moralestapia wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big salary and a CV boost? Come on monster, be a bit more logical ...

My question is very logical. We can all hypothesize plenty of reasons, a couple of which you mentioned, but knowing specifically why OP values employment with FAANG might help provide better life advice.

Oh ok ... yeah sure, it's probably something else.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#138

Post by morelisp »

jmye wrote: post #134
morelisp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a formal CS education, although I've hired a bunch of people without. I'm just saying, a Harvard CS degree tells me either you're extremely bad with money, or you (or your parents) are more interested in social signalling than a thorough education. You also seem to be missing that the content associated with the certificate can be fine, but the validation process broken enough that the certificate per se (and…

Are you saying a Harvard CS degree isn’t a thorough education? Or are you assuming that everyone at Harvard pays full freight? I don’t get the elitism or why you think someone with a degree from a specific school is inherently stupid. That’s as weird as refusing to hire non-formally educated people.

I think you can get a better formal CS education than Harvard for a fraction of the price at two dozen places, probably including at least one state school you have access to.

Harvard is good for signalling, traditional liberal arts, and pre-law (but, I repeat myself). It's not a very good teaching university overall, and especially not in CS.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#140

Post by meneer_oke »

morelisp wrote: post #126
meneer_oke wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the context is online courses from Harvard, MIT. Such as the CS50 course referenced by many even in this thread. Those courses are free, there is a option for a certification for around 150 dollar. People actually learn the basics of CS and foundational knowledge in those courses. And how to use git and GitHub. I never stated that those certs, or courses alone would be enough. This comment thread started because…

> Listing anything on a Resume is never pointless Sorry, but you have absolutely wrong ideas about resumes, how they are read, and what information they convey. Both descriptively and normatively. > Courses like the one mentioned are open, which means if you wanted to test that knowledge you could, easily. If I have to test anything, I'm going to test the actual job skills. But actually the point of a degree/certific…

I've been hiring devs at multiple companies.

It seems you are misunderstanding me again, If someone puts something on resume. It's a signalling they think it's important. And in order asses candidates on their strengths, we use the resume.

If you are worried that they are missing the information from the course, I gave how it's actually great tool to asses candidate.

You also thinking that can outsource in some sense if developer will workout at the work place you are hiring for. This is a mistake.

Instead of making blanket statements, and dismissing people on frivolous things. Like going to ivy league universities or having certificate.

It's better to test the person, to get the know more about the strengths and weaknesses.

A resume is just window into the candidate thinking process.

-edit It's clear from your comments you're not aware of the great work at Harvard with CS50 course.

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