141–150 of 371 posts
Obviously I don't condone insider trading, but it's nice to see someone go all in and make some real money. If you're going to risk jail time, you might as well do it for life-changing amounts of cash. Contrast this with Stephen Buyer who's going to trial and may well end up in jail for a piddly few $100k.
Because otherwise lots of people would've taken this sort of calculated risk already.
I know this isn't what happened, but what if one day I'm waiting for the bus and I over hear a guy talking on their phone about an imminent acquisition? 1. Would that still fall under insider trading even if the information was accidentally heard, and even if I wasn't 100% sure of its accuracy? 2. If I had no clear connection to the company how would it be proven that I was trading on insider information? Surely it's…
It's still not public information (e.g. "Material Nonpublic Information"). You can't trade on it. See 17 CFR § 240.10b5-1 "Trading “on the basis of” material nonpublic information in insider trading cases", particularly section (b) "Awareness of material nonpublic information." https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/17/240.10b5-1
if you’re not affiliated with the company and simply overhear and trade, make enough to retain a lawyer real quick
Can someone explain the mechanics of this specific trade to a noob? The trader bought 550k options yesterday for SPLK to hit $127/share? Since that seemed highly unlikely they were only priced at $.04 each. but now that SPLK is at $145/share they are worth $18 each? so that would be a profit of ~$10m?
Yes. The one bit you’re missing is that a call option is the right to buy a stock at a certain price typically on or before a certain date. To make the numbers simple, imagine a stock trades at $10/share. If someone came to you and said: how much would you be willing to pay to have an option to buy the stock for $100/share? The correct answer is: it depends. If it’s the right to buy the stock for $100/share at any po…
So a scenario I'm curious about:
Say you're, like, an employee at DataDog, and you're involved in a long-term M&A discussion with Cisco that you know is competitive (I've had the pleasure of witnessing one of these at Arbor Networks). Things are looking great, you've picked up a bunch of strong signals that Cisco is definitely going to make a move, and then: the talks fall apart.
Knowing Cisco, you immediately reach the logical conclusion that they're about to acquire your biggest competitor.
You have no fiduciary duty to Splunk whatsoever. Cisco is, if anything, hostile. Buying Splunk options that are valuable only if Cisco acquires doesn't impact DataDog at all.
Have you violated insider trading laws if you buy the options?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The one bit you’re missing is that a call option is the right to buy a stock at a certain price typically on or before a certain date. To make the numbers simple, imagine a stock trades at $10/share. If someone came to you and said: how much would you be willing to pay to have an option to buy the stock for $100/share? The correct answer is: it depends. If it’s the right to buy the stock for $100/share at any po…
> And strategy 2 seems especially suspicious because the risk is so high and the non-illegal reasons for doing it are so few and far between. Very few reasons you’d buy a bunch of call options that only pay off if something causes a stock to move dramatically in 24 hours. But why are they then legal to sell? It almost seems like someone wants to be able to sell them, but when they lose the bet they want to revert it.…
It’s less obvious with stocks because there’s a pretty streamlined system for taking delivery of the stock ownership but with physical goods or real estate sometimes actually changing ownership triggers a lot of regulatory or tax or process things.
For example, with real estate if you actually buy it you’ll need at minimum to get insurance to cover if any trespassers or workers get injured on the property. Lots of paperwork to transfer the title/deed, and you might be on the hook to help sort out future title / deed / survey errors. But if you never own it you save the headache of all these things.
For buying commodities you need a safe, regulated warehouse/tank to store it, handle all the ohysical logistics, etc.
By buying and selling the right to purchase the things you can delay the actual purchase until you find someone who can and wants to actually deal with the ownership of the thing.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And strategy 2 seems especially suspicious because the risk is so high and the non-illegal reasons for doing it are so few and far between. Very few reasons you’d buy a bunch of call options that only pay off if something causes a stock to move dramatically in 24 hours. But why are they then legal to sell? It almost seems like someone wants to be able to sell them, but when they lose the bet they want to revert it.…
> But why are they then legal to sell? Things are legal until there is a law or ruling that makes them illegal
In the Google Legal building, the department that dealt with acquisitions was behind a locked door. Most badges did not open it.
What’s the relationship between Google, Cisco and Splunk?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The one bit you’re missing is that a call option is the right to buy a stock at a certain price typically on or before a certain date. To make the numbers simple, imagine a stock trades at $10/share. If someone came to you and said: how much would you be willing to pay to have an option to buy the stock for $100/share? The correct answer is: it depends. If it’s the right to buy the stock for $100/share at any po…
> And strategy 2 seems especially suspicious because the risk is so high and the non-illegal reasons for doing it are so few and far between. Very few reasons you’d buy a bunch of call options that only pay off if something causes a stock to move dramatically in 24 hours. But why are they then legal to sell? It almost seems like someone wants to be able to sell them, but when they lose the bet they want to revert it.…
If this was e.g. 1 million different buyers of 1 option each instead of 1 buyer of 1 million options this would be a non-story.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is that considered insider trading? AFAIU, the use of material non-public information always qualifies as insider trading. It does not matter how you got it, and it does not even matter if you work at the company. See https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/materialinsiderinformat...
> It does not matter how you got it Well, it sort of does. In fact, that's almost all that matters. Insider trading is all about obligations . If someone who had the obligation to keep the info secret gave it to you and then you went and traded on it, then yes, you're breaking the law. But if, say, you figure it out by accidentally stumbling on a draft Splunk web page that has a Cisco copyright buried in the code, yo…
> Material nonpublic information is data relating to a company that has not been made public but could have an impact on its share price. It is against the law for holders of nonpublic material information to use the information to their advantage in trading stocks.
Edit: or would a leak on a webpage be considered “public”? I recall a podcast where they said that if you saw a company’s factory blow up while in an airplane, it would be illegal (insider trading) to trade on this information until the news was announced publicly.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's definitely suspicious and will probably be looked into. If it turns out it's a trader who regularly buys soon-to-be-expiring option calls, maybe it'll fly. But if the trade was made by someone who doesn't regularly make $20,000 options bets, they will need a good explanation.
Why will they need a good explanation? Can't they just say I lucked out and the burden of proving insider trading would fall on the SEC? Innocent until proven guilty right?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The one bit you’re missing is that a call option is the right to buy a stock at a certain price typically on or before a certain date. To make the numbers simple, imagine a stock trades at $10/share. If someone came to you and said: how much would you be willing to pay to have an option to buy the stock for $100/share? The correct answer is: it depends. If it’s the right to buy the stock for $100/share at any po…
> And strategy 2 seems especially suspicious because the risk is so high and the non-illegal reasons for doing it are so few and far between. Very few reasons you’d buy a bunch of call options that only pay off if something causes a stock to move dramatically in 24 hours. But why are they then legal to sell? It almost seems like someone wants to be able to sell them, but when they lose the bet they want to revert it.…