Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

matrix.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 283 posts

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#21

Post by soupbowl »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #10

Is Matrix simple enough now that I can invite my grandpa/grandma and they will be able to join? How does ease up sign up and use compare to discord? Assume that I make the choice of which client to direct them to.

It is less simple than discord and I does not have good audio rooms. I setup family accounts and store their security key for them. Then I help them setup their app in a few minutes and paste them their security key once they are on my matrix server.

In the past I left sign up and setup to family and the element app and it has never worked smoothly. They don't understand the security key purpose or verifying clients.

So to answer your first question, yeah you can invite grandma and grandpa but they probably will need some hand holding at the start. Once they are in, it just works™**. YMMV

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#22

Post by infinitezest »

the_common_man wrote: post #13
UltimateEdge wrote: post #7

> Therefore to use Element X, you need to be running a homeserver with Sliding Sync support, which (for now) means running a sliding-sync proxy which bolts Sliding Sync support on to existing homeservers. I am excited to try out Element X, but I do not want to administer yet another service, namely the Sliding Sync proxy. From a practical perspective, Sliding Sync (MSC3575) is still on the level of a proposal/experim…

Why is sliding sync a separate service and not just part of synapse itself?

I would guess it's so the same functionality can be used with other Matrix servers without having to rewrite the whole thing

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#23

Post by UltimateEdge »

Arathorn wrote: post #12
UltimateEdge wrote: post #7

> Therefore to use Element X, you need to be running a homeserver with Sliding Sync support, which (for now) means running a sliding-sync proxy which bolts Sliding Sync support on to existing homeservers. I am excited to try out Element X, but I do not want to administer yet another service, namely the Sliding Sync proxy. From a practical perspective, Sliding Sync (MSC3575) is still on the level of a proposal/experim…

Matrix evolves as a protocol by folks proposing new APIs (e.g. MSC3575), implementing them, showing that they work, and making the case that they should be merged into the main spec. Sliding Sync is an interesting case in that it clearly does work, and it kicks ass - but it turns out to be unnecessarily complicated for the subset of features that you actually need when implementing something like Element X (which is…

> Matrix evolves as a protocol by folks proposing new APIs (e.g. MSC3575), implementing them, showing that they work, and making the case that they should be merged into the main spec.

Yes, it is just unfortunate that it is not clear enough to more people (such as the_common_man below) that Sliding Sync is only at the MSC stage at the moment and not part of the Matrix spec.

I am glad that at least Element X allows this MSC to improve and for those nits you have mentioned to be resolved.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#24

Post by infinitezest »

tetrisgm wrote: post #2

I always get so confused by the naming between Matrix and Element. I get that Element is the client, but I honestly thought that the name Matrix for the server (or is it just the standard for the protocol?) was sunset. Great service though and hope if gets UX improvements too, as Discord and Slack keep getting more clutter.

As much as I love the fact that I have my choice of server and client I have to say that it does make me wonder if it affects adoption. When the Mastodon growth spikes happened the complaint that I heard most often was from people that couldn't figure out which client to use or which instance to use. Too much choice tends to paralyze people and they default to proprietary services because they don't know what choices to make.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#25

Post by amatecha »

Regular reminder Matrix/Element work closely with law-enforcement to provide encrypted comms for them. It's a sector Matrix/Element actively markets to and deals with. My personal view is I'm not using a chat platform designed/developed by an organization so eager to partner with governments and law enforcement agencies.

There's Element's Chief Product Officer & Managing Director presenting at the European Police Congress[0]: https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058

And a quick post about their excitement at participating in this conference: https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110304013472307767

I mean, whatever, it's just doing business, right? When someone criticized this, they gave a snarky, surprisingly unprofessional response: https://mastodon.matrix.org/@matrix/110334695988903649

Dunno about anyone else but my trust in them is just gone. I'm not saying you have to care (and I don't care if you do). I'm sharing this for the people who do care, and don't want to use "secure messaging" made by people who actively market to and collaborate closely with law enforcement and governments.

[0] https://www.european-police.eu/

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#26

Post by Arathorn »

neilv wrote: post #15

Thoughts on how this will get us towards when libre software privacy&security type people are ready to advise friends to move to Matrix for personal communication? (To be clear, the platform has to be all open source and open standards, actually decentralized, guided by those principles -- not an effectively proprietary play even if nominally open. For example, you should be able to get all the same functionality wit…

Matrix 2.0 is a major step towards getting friends & family on Matrix.

Firstly, it's not introducing new features - it's just making the current featureset work super-efficiently (while retaining compatibility with today's Matrix). So there should be no fragmentation between Element/Fluffychat/Thunderbird, with the possible exception of the new scalable encrypted VoIP conferencing (but then very few Matrix clients implemented the old VoIP conferencing, plus you can always just embed an Element Call instance to get at it now - as Element X does today).

Secondly, we're explicitly working to protect Matrix from the commercial interests from Element (the company set up by the team who created Matrix, of which I'm ceo/cto as well as Matrix project lead). We already have The Matrix.org Foundation (https://matrix.org/foundation) as an independent non-profit to hold the Matrix IP and maintain its neutrality - but we also just hired Josh Simmons (former President of the OSI) as its independent Managing Director (https://matrix.org/blog/2023/09/introducing-josh-simmons-man...).

So: going forwards, the Foundation increasingly does not have to depend on Element not being evil, but instead has its own independent management to ensure the protocol exists to support everyone in the ecosystem, without fragmentation, as per the guiding principles at https://matrix.org/foundation - under its own autonomy.

I'd say this is is good news for libre software privacy & security type people, but then again I'm biased. Practically, the only thing getting in the way of getting friends & family on Matrix is that Element X requires fancy OIDC-native homeservers for registration, so newbies won't be able to use Element X to join Matrix yet. But the app itself should be an excellent way to get folks on board in the very near future.

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#27

Post by __s »

amatecha wrote: post #25

Regular reminder Matrix/Element work closely with law-enforcement to provide encrypted comms for them. It's a sector Matrix/Element actively markets to and deals with. My personal view is I'm not using a chat platform designed/developed by an organization so eager to partner with governments and law enforcement agencies. There's Element's Chief Product Officer & Managing Director presenting at the European Police Con…

What's the problem with e2e encryption for those organizations?

The problem is if they give those orgs a backdoor

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#28

Post by amatecha »

__s wrote: post #27
amatecha wrote: post #25

Regular reminder Matrix/Element work closely with law-enforcement to provide encrypted comms for them. It's a sector Matrix/Element actively markets to and deals with. My personal view is I'm not using a chat platform designed/developed by an organization so eager to partner with governments and law enforcement agencies. There's Element's Chief Product Officer & Managing Director presenting at the European Police Con…

What's the problem with e2e encryption for those organizations? The problem is if they give those orgs a backdoor

Oh yeah, I actually asked them about that. They said there aren't any backdoors[0]. We're all good, no worries! :) :)

[0] https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#29

Post by EGreg »

amatecha wrote: post #25

Regular reminder Matrix/Element work closely with law-enforcement to provide encrypted comms for them. It's a sector Matrix/Element actively markets to and deals with. My personal view is I'm not using a chat platform designed/developed by an organization so eager to partner with governments and law enforcement agencies. There's Element's Chief Product Officer & Managing Director presenting at the European Police Con…

But that doesn’t mean Matrix makes backdoors. So you can use it too.

What’s wrong with helping organizations including law enforcement encrypt their communications?

Because they are public servants and We the Public should have ways to be able to decrypt those communications.

Secret meetings and intelligence agencies are what leads to totally avoidable wars.

https://community.qbix.com/t/transparency-in-government/234/...

Re: Matrix 2.0: The Future of Matrix

#30

Post by jazzyjackson »

amatecha wrote: post #25

Regular reminder Matrix/Element work closely with law-enforcement to provide encrypted comms for them. It's a sector Matrix/Element actively markets to and deals with. My personal view is I'm not using a chat platform designed/developed by an organization so eager to partner with governments and law enforcement agencies. There's Element's Chief Product Officer & Managing Director presenting at the European Police Con…

Fair enough to share the information but I take the opposite tack: if it's good enough for LEOs, good enough for me.

I would also be excited to find paying customers when trying to build free software.

In any case I get the feeling if I were to avoid technology built by companies with government contracts I would be left with my retro 8bit machines. Lets be pragmatic.

Post reply on HN