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Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#71

Post by nopcodex90 »

grubbs wrote: post #21
jameshush wrote: post #20

I worked at a FAANG company. My co-worker hadn't graduated High School. I recommend applying and grinding leetcode if you aim for a SWE role. Two years SWE experience is enough for them to give you an interview with a cold application through their job board in my experience.

I remember watching that Freakonomics documentary on Netflix a decade ago. One of the authors mentions "not getting a HS degree is an economic death sentence". I guess times have changed.

Depends on how hard you can grind, and the amount of knowledge you can soak up. I never graduated high school, but I have been asking for programming books for my birthday and Christmas since I was 9.I do very well for myself Making over 6 figures.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#72

Post by morelisp »

meneer_oke wrote: post #11
nwoli wrote: post #5

I remember a time when online certificates was an anti signal. I think it still is in many startups. (Most people just hire on skill.)

I don't remember the time that online certificates from MIT, Berkeley, etc would have been anti signals. https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts...

Honestly, a full genuine undergrad CS degree from Harvard is nearly an anti-signal...

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#73

Post by ghusto »

jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #54
jwestbury wrote: post #10

You don't need a CS degree and you don't need certs once you've established yourself. I've been in SRE or SRE-adjacent roles at Amazon, Microsoft, Dropbox, and now a quant hedge fund (the first three in the US, the last in London). My only degree is in English lit. Your hardest step is getting into your first job with good name recognition in the tech industry. For this, your best bet isn't certs, it's networking --…

Thanks! Yeah, my CV has a big financial organisation on it and a medium-sized university. I think getting a job with better recognition in tech is the biggest hurdle.

Just want to confirm the parent comment is 100% spot on.

You don't necessarily need a better name on your CV yet. If you're just starting out, having a single financial org on there already is enough — as long as you can get good references.

Do something to skip the recruiters and talk directly to your potential colleagues.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#74

Post by Waterluvian »

treprinum wrote: post #67
flanked-evergl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember a time when online certificates was an anti signal. I have never interviewed someone with many certifications and thought the person would be a good addition to a team, and I have never worked with someone who has many online certifications and thought they are good at the things they are certified in.

I have over 100 Coursera/edX/Udacity certificates and work on the bleeding edge of tech (AI). MIT's Underactuated Robotics got me into the first cohort of Udacity's Self-driving Car Nanodegree. I think you are shooting yourself in the feet if you plainly reject people like me who just want to keep learning new things.

They’re not saying that though. They’re saying they’ve never experienced it being a positive signal. I haven’t either. But I don’t think we’re claiming people like you don’t exist and we’re not judging people because of their certs. Just observing the correlation.

Edit: to add to this, you know what signal I’ve also never observed in 11 years? A PhD indicating someone will be an exceptional engineer.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#75

Post by JKCalhoun »

jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #50
JKCalhoun wrote: post #22

Having been an engineer interviewing other engineers applying to work for Apple (for 26 years) I can tell you that the best resume was one where the engineer shipped code. Degree became a non-issue if that box was checked.

Thank you for your insight. Apple is one of the few FAANG companies with a decent number of open vacancies in the UK at the moment. Can you tell me what you mean by shipped code? I've shipped plenty of code in my current job (none of it is that exciting, though). I probably don't emphasise it enough on my current CV, now I think about it.

Ideally you have a product you worked on on the App Store or equivalent. Excellent if you have some of the code with you (to the degree you are allowed to).

Both of these things lead to natural points of conversations with your interviewer.

"Have any problems with concurrency with you approach?"

"Any user feedback that caused you to make changes to the app?"

etc....

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#77

Post by meneer_oke »

morelisp wrote: post #72
meneer_oke wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember the time that online certificates from MIT, Berkeley, etc would have been anti signals. https://www.edx.org/learn/computer-programming/massachusetts...

Honestly, a full genuine undergrad CS degree from Harvard is nearly an anti-signal...

Seems even in this thread there are many without any certificate nor formal education. Would it be possible to explain how that is happening?

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#78

Post by P_I_Staker »

poisonborz wrote: post #65
jdjdjdjdjdjd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! No specific industries in mind. I am keen to move to a tech company like FAANG or similar not just because of their prestige but also because I want to work with the best engineers. In the jobs I've had outside tech (especially in the public sector), I've had pretty limited exposure to engineers who are passionate, and I feel I can learn from.

> I want to work with the best engineers Sorry but wrong mindset. You will not learn the most when you are surrounded and mentored by "yoda class" devs. The sad reality of the tech sector that this happens very rarely - not many teams have this growth attitude, everyone just wants to hire seniors who instantly have the best answers. You can learn just as well by surrounded by and inspiring juniors when solving proble…

This is a huge problem in our society. Corporations line up to throw money at unicorn mega experts that largely don't exist (ie. are quite scarce compared with the demand).

The interesting thing is IME these engineers only have so much to bring to the table, and often have to push through the same technical hurdles. A passionate, hard working junior may get more done, if they have experience at the company.

Among even competent senior engineers, these mega-performers are unicorns. For every one that will save any project, or at least greatly improve it, there's 5-10 that are just okay.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#79

Post by P_I_Staker »

iteria wrote: post #56
thaumasiotes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? I applied to Google in late 2021 / early 2022. The suggestion was to grind leetcode. The recruiter emailed me after my interviews to say they'd resulted in good news. She set up a phone call shortly afterward in which she told me I'd passed the interviews, I should prepare for a series of "team fit" interviews, I should see a job offer in about 6 weeks ("the end of February", when the call occurred in mid-January…

Honestly, they might have just filled their quota. I've interviewed at companies where it wasn't that I wasn't good, but they found an acceptable candidate before I completed interviewing. A lot of times you're not interviewing for "Google", but a specific team. If that team has all it's members, then well, sucks to be you.

This is still a disgraceful way to recruit, and they kinda try to pretend that they don't do things like this.

Re: Ask HN: I'm a SWE without a CS degree. Will online certs help me get into FAANG?

#80

Post by silent_cal »

hoagsobject wrote: post #33

As someone who decided to get BSc degree in Math & Stats after 5 years in industry this thread makes me questioning my decision. Everyone says you don't need degree, but in my experience if you want to do advanced stuff (machine learning, cryptography, algorithms) you probably need one, unless you are extremely talented and can pick up everything on your own. You probably don't need degree if you want to work as SWE…

No, I think you're right. It's easy to think you've understood these concepts when you really haven't. Sometimes formal training is really necessary I think, or at least is the fastest way to true comprehension. Especially with rigorous subjects like linear algebra and calculus.
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