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Telemetry

storybook.js.org

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Re: Telemetry

#11

Post by bmacho »

Isn't there a telemetry manifesto? I understand that developers want to peek into what their users are doing. That is the fruit of their labor after all. However telemetry became increasingly easy lately, and it is impossible (in theory and in practice) to do it right.

Collecting data of your users is

  - stupid
  - illegal
  - harming your users
  - makes your software a spyware
so in summary, don't do that. Instead, do the exact opposite, and excessively delete any data that you may store. Also make sure that your users are exposed against 3rd party (isp, cnds and such) to the minimum when they check and get new updates. (Randomized update checks over TOR, for example.) They trust you, and allow your program to handle their network, so use it wisely.

Also there are sane methods to know what your users are doing, for example you can buy usage blogposts from them, which you can showcase, and link in the manuals and support.

Re: Telemetry

#12

Post by larschdk »

iamacyborg wrote: post #5
ricardobeat wrote: post #2

Submission title is a bit confusing: “opt-in” means you have to opt-in, that is, the default is “off”. The sentence “opt-in by default” is the opposite of what I assume the poster meant. Storybook’s telemetry is opt-out as stated at the top of the page. This also looks like something that should be posted as a text submission with commentary - simply editorializing a link + title is discouraged in HN.

It’d be clearer if they just said “opted-in by default”.

No. To "opt" literally means "to make a choice". If the choice has been made for you, you are not "opted-in", you are in.

Re: Telemetry

#13

Post by [deleted] »

iamacyborg wrote: post #5
ricardobeat wrote: post #2

Submission title is a bit confusing: “opt-in” means you have to opt-in, that is, the default is “off”. The sentence “opt-in by default” is the opposite of what I assume the poster meant. Storybook’s telemetry is opt-out as stated at the top of the page. This also looks like something that should be posted as a text submission with commentary - simply editorializing a link + title is discouraged in HN.

It’d be clearer if they just said “opted-in by default”.

[deleted]

Re: Telemetry

#14

Post by core-utility »

iamacyborg wrote: post #5
ricardobeat wrote: post #2

Submission title is a bit confusing: “opt-in” means you have to opt-in, that is, the default is “off”. The sentence “opt-in by default” is the opposite of what I assume the poster meant. Storybook’s telemetry is opt-out as stated at the top of the page. This also looks like something that should be posted as a text submission with commentary - simply editorializing a link + title is discouraged in HN.

It’d be clearer if they just said “opted-in by default”.

"Enabled by default" would make more sense, and imply that it could be disabled.

Re: Telemetry

#15

Post by ekanes »

ricardobeat wrote: post #2

Submission title is a bit confusing: “opt-in” means you have to opt-in, that is, the default is “off”. The sentence “opt-in by default” is the opposite of what I assume the poster meant. Storybook’s telemetry is opt-out as stated at the top of the page. This also looks like something that should be posted as a text submission with commentary - simply editorializing a link + title is discouraged in HN.

Sorta.

The policy is "opt out" but you are "opted in" by default.

Re: Telemetry

#16

Post by [deleted] »

larschdk wrote: post #12
iamacyborg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be clearer if they just said “opted-in by default”.

No. To "opt" literally means "to make a choice". If the choice has been made for you, you are not "opted-in", you are in.

[deleted]

Re: Telemetry

#17

Post by tilne »

I don’t mean to dismiss the importance of users owning and controlling their data, but isn’t telemetry a valid tool for software projects to gain valuable insights into how their product is being used and thus how to improve it? Yes, it can be (and, probably frequently is) abused. Yes there should be a way to opt-out of telemetry if a user desires for whatever reason. But I can’t help but feel this is posted in the spirit of “telemetry by default is bad” and I don’t really agree.

Full disclosure: this is the first I’ve ever heard of Storybook, so if there’s something particularly gross about telemetry for this use case I’m not aware of it.

Re: Telemetry

#18

Post by [deleted] »

Keirmot wrote: post #9
K0balt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely can be interpreted to mean that the telemetry is opt-in, or that it is opt-out. (“Opt-in by default” is a double positive, a less common sibling of the dreaded double negative)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t a double positive just a positive while a double negative is a positive? Opt-in by default: you are in You can’t not select opt-in: you are in

[deleted]

Re: Telemetry

#19

Post by have_faith »

tilne wrote: post #17

I don’t mean to dismiss the importance of users owning and controlling their data, but isn’t telemetry a valid tool for software projects to gain valuable insights into how their product is being used and thus how to improve it? Yes, it can be (and, probably frequently is) abused. Yes there should be a way to opt-out of telemetry if a user desires for whatever reason. But I can’t help but feel this is posted in the s…

> there should be a way to opt-out of telemetry

There should be a way to opt-in. Anything else is egregious.

Re: Telemetry

#20

Post by pydry »

tilne wrote: post #17

I don’t mean to dismiss the importance of users owning and controlling their data, but isn’t telemetry a valid tool for software projects to gain valuable insights into how their product is being used and thus how to improve it? Yes, it can be (and, probably frequently is) abused. Yes there should be a way to opt-out of telemetry if a user desires for whatever reason. But I can’t help but feel this is posted in the s…

I think its value is considerably overstated from the use I've seen made of it.

Executives absolutely love it though. It makes them feel scientific in their decision making and gives them ass-cover when justifying their decisions.

I really think that the ability to collect opt in opinions at strategic points in the app is vastly more effective, not to mention less creepy and invasive.

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