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California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

theguardian.com

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Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#31

Post by imtringued »

pphysch wrote: post #15
xattt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

Sure but you could make the same argument about exporting food. Apples are 80-90% water

When animal feed is imported, the poop ends up in the importing country and the quantities aren't insignificant.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#32

Post by xattt »

Aerroon wrote: post #24
arwineap wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Rivers flow through geographic locales, and generally their path is static There's not a whole lot of risk that the Seine will start flowing through the US The "local" clouds also usually follow a pattern, this is why my local mountains get snow replacing every year, which is the source of my local rivers However a bottling company could easily ship bottled water to a location that is likely never going to retur…

Where does that local water come from? Rain. Where did the rain cloud get the water? It evaporated, likely from the ocean. How did the water get into the ocean? It flowed down from lakes into rivers etc. The local water table might fall, but the water itself is hardly local unless you're drilling for it.

> Where does that local water come from? Rain

There’s an equilibrium that’s achieved in a given watershed with local weather patterns. There might be ebbs or flows over the course of a year, but it’s reliable and predictable, and can be used sustainably.

If local weather patterns change and there’s a significant strain on a watershed, the water table will drain to a level that’s not recoverable within a human lifespan.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#33

Post by perryizgr8 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #12
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> Water being a human right Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

Agreed, anything that requires other people's labour to provide to you is not your right, e.g. education, food, water, broadband, petrol, housing.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#34

Post by happymellon »

autoexec wrote: post #9
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all this is a job they are failing at. I was recently shocked to see how many places in the US were under boil-water advisories. At this point I'd really like a national map of where the water is unsafe because they are everywhere and some of them go on for years while others a…

Even places that aren't, the water out of the faucet is fairly grim. Heavily chlorinated and unpleasant. It's no wonder that they all drink filtered, or bottled water.

It's one of those things I forget about each time I visit and drink from the tap only to remember that I can't do that most places here after the first sip.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#35

Post by doublerabbit »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #30
Aerroon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is absurd. It opens with a mother talking about how she uses bottled water to bathe her child, because the tap water is polluted.Then it goes on to say that residents don't like that Nestle gets to bottle water in the area while their tap water sucks. I don't see how these two points are related. This sounds like a problem of incompetent politicians and officials that can't maintain water infrastructure.…

Nestlé has been under constant boycott for 46 years, and couldn't seem to stop abusing mothers and their young children. Flint or not, I will never purchase or use a Nestlé product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott N.B. Nestlé sold their bottling operations in these USA, and no longer owns Arrowhead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Water

Same. Recently discovered that Starbucks serves child-labour coffee owned by Nestle. [0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-wo...

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#36

Post by Eumenes »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> water being a human right

housing, jobs, healthcare, education, water ... strange how classically liberal rights, such as speech and fair trial, which if anything are antagonist to the state, have transitioned, in popular discourse, to physical and materialistic needs that require top down control of resources/institutions. not very liberal to me. nestle sucks, and shouldn't exist, but this 'human right' rhetoric is just stupid

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#37

Post by lordfrito »

xattt wrote: post #6
rudolph9 wrote: post #3

Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary and really wasteful to transport but I can’t help think the actual amount of water given people are drinking it not watering plants or showering with it is relatively small?

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

> If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source.

Sounds like the perfect solution to sea level rise caused by melting glaciers. Just bottle it all up.

I can see it now "Every bottle of water sold fights you dealing with climate change!"

/s

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#38

Post by lm28469 »

ipaddr wrote: post #26
xattt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

Do you realize your water comes from the ocean through rain. It replenishes itself everytime it rains. You are on an island in the ocean? In your case companies are using the allure of locale to sell more bottles by claiming the water is purer in your area because of the lack of industry.

Do you realise this is much much more complex than that. Otherwise we'd literally never have any kind of water shortage, which we do have all the time

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#39

Post by Georgelemental »

em-bee wrote: post #28
Georgelemental wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Water being a human right Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

what? on the contrary. every human need must by necessity be a right. ignoring human needs is in itself a human rights violation. since water is needed to survive, unless you want to deny people the right to live, water must be a human right.

A human right is universal, something that applies to all times and all places, by virtue of the human's existence. People can try to take them away, but not grant them, because they are already granted by default. If you are marooned, alone, on a desert island, you still have a right to free expression, due process, etc.

In contrast, limited resources require active effort to obtain, and even that might not be enough. If you are stuck on the desert island, with no food or fresh water available, no amount of agitation about your ‘rights’ will override the laws of physics to make them appear. Even in a more advanced society, producing enough food and water to ensure everyone's survival may be physically impossible (especially if you insist on a certain level of quality). Therefore, ‘rights’ to limited resources are not universal, they are subordinate to (at minimum) the laws of nature.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#40

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

Eumenes wrote: post #36
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> water being a human right housing, jobs, healthcare, education, water ... strange how classically liberal rights, such as speech and fair trial, which if anything are antagonist to the state, have transitioned, in popular discourse, to physical and materialistic needs that require top down control of resources/institutions. not very liberal to me. nestle sucks, and shouldn't exist, but this 'human right' rhetoric i…

If enough people agree that something should be available to all, then we can decide that it's a human right. I don't think it's that complicated.

Your comment seems like it takes on the problem from a platonic ideal of a reality which doesn't seem to exist.

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