Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure • Hacker News Board

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#61

Post by pvaldes » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:21 AM UTC

rhelz wrote: post #30

What struck me is that the two pieces of wood were found notched together at a 90-degree angle. This has got to be the first-known 90-degree angle in history. Virtually nothing in nature has a 90-degree angle. This is an invention of the highest order. EDIT: thanks for all the good responses; I should have written a bit more carefully--I meant to say that this might be the first-known time a 90-degree angle was delib…

Just arrange two branches in a bonfire. Most humans will tend to create a 90 degree angle.

As any other animals, we are brain wired to recognize symmetry. Is our main way to find a desirable mate with good genetics or to detect a predator ambushed so is essential in our survival.

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#62

Post by Archelaos » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:29 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #57

> Forget the label ‘Stone Age,’ look at what these people were doing: they made something new, and large, from wood. ??? The "Stone Age" refers to using stone tools, which these people did.

That the "Stone Age" should better be called the "Wood Age" is an adage that has been used so often over the years that it has lost its appeal for me. Here, for example, is a summary of a paper from 1985 that argues this case: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/016093...

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#63

Post by paulrouget » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #59

twobitshifter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are chopping marks and striations that show the notches were worked with tools. It’s only two logs so I can’t jump to structure but it’s wood that was worked to lock together for some purpose. Maybe structure is meant in the more general sense?

I would need to see it. Marks in wood would be totally expected in a bonfire used to create and test tools with fire hardened tips If we are both talking about the same structure, I don't see striations, but the photo mentions two cracks. If those are really cracks (and not engravings carved superficially) this would reinforce my theory.

The logs are "joined transversely by an intentionally cut notch".

And I don't think researcher would just confuse bonfire and modified wood :) That's their expertise.

Read the (peer reviewed) research paper. You'll see how serious the research is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06557-9

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#64

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:49 AM UTC

verisimi wrote: post #21

sudofail wrote: post #14

Considering beavers make wooden structures for their own benefit and survival, it's not really surprising that ancestors of Homo Sapiens did as well.

Maybe this one of many half a million year old wooden beaver structures, given that they build in water.

[deleted]

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#65

Post by 1letterunixname » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:54 AM UTC

I assume that they're also using superposition because radiocarbon dating is useless here. Other dating methods:

https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/dating

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#66

Post by 1letterunixname » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 1:54 AM UTC

danparsonson wrote: post #49

jl6 wrote: post #4

How do they know the wood was used 476,000 years ago, as opposed to a human 6000 years ago finding and using some 470,000 year old wood? This gives a hint: > They used new luminescence dating techniques, which reveal the last time minerals in the sand surrounding the finds were exposed to sunlight, to determine their age. ... but it seems like there might be other explanations for that sand being there?

This is the usual way of dating buried archaeological finds - you work out when the thing was buried by studying the surrounding material. In this case the specific dating technique is new, but the principle is well established. If you find something buried in material that was laid down 470,000 years ago, then the thing was buried at that time. Assuming teleportation doesn't exist, how else could the artefacts get t…

TL;DR: superposition.

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#67

Post by NateEag » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:02 AM UTC

mlhpdx wrote: post #46

xeromal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my point was less about what the structure is and more that it'd a significant discovery regardless of what it is.

Oh yeah, totally agree. I’m a little sensitive about the kind of extrapolations that are so common with some of these articles/announcements - it doesn’t make science look good, and it’s important that science does.

Why is it important for science to look good?

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#68

Post by steve_adams_86 » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:11 AM UTC

ulizzle wrote: post #53

bagels wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the actual crazy things?

That Atlantis was real and probably had steam engines and lasers and psychic powers when everyone else was still hunting dinosaurs but then a global catastrophe wiped out the world (again) and here we are, half their size and half their glory. I don’t think it’s that crazy. What’s crazy is thinking eggs are bad for you and that the fabric of reality itself is nothing but a social construct

Is there much evidence that eggs are good for you?

We’re still hunting dinosaurs. Wild Turkey season opens pretty soon where I am.

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#69

Post by steve_adams_86 » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:12 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #58

ulizzle wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Atlantis was real and probably had steam engines and lasers and psychic powers when everyone else was still hunting dinosaurs but then a global catastrophe wiped out the world (again) and here we are, half their size and half their glory. I don’t think it’s that crazy. What’s crazy is thinking eggs are bad for you and that the fabric of reality itself is nothing but a social construct

One cannot have lasers without a lot of other advanced technology and precursors. There's zero evidence of that.

I had a laser pointer when I was like 8 years old. They probably just got theirs from the dollar store like I did.

Re: Archaeologists discover oldest wooden structure

#70

Post by 1letterunixname » Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 2:19 AM UTC

Archelaos wrote: post #62

WalterBright wrote: post #57

> Forget the label ‘Stone Age,’ look at what these people were doing: they made something new, and large, from wood. ??? The "Stone Age" refers to using stone tools, which these people did.

That the "Stone Age" should better be called the "Wood Age" is an adage that has been used so often over the years that it has lost its appeal for me. Here, for example, is a summary of a paper from 1985 that argues this case: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/016093...

Agriculture seems a prerequisite for most other technologies because you can't invent much if you're constantly following 4 legged food. The transition to ag (small-scale gardening) began before 21k BCE (23k years ago) predating Natufian culture.