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OpenTF is now OpenTofu

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Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#221

Post by verdverm »

throwawayllaq wrote: post #195
verdverm wrote: post #63

Well, I guess this is more motivation to leave HCL and anything related to TF... tofu? Poor naming choice imho, searching is going to be a terrible time, wonder how confused the ChatGPTs will get? I'm allergic to soy and derivatives like tofu, so not liking this name change A CUE powered solution will be much better anyway, go straight to the APIs for definitions, no intermediate, yet still unique, (leaky) abstractio…

Modern search engines and LLMs have no trouble distinguishing between different things with the same name. Google Trends will even show you something is a product, a service, a book, whatever. If you ask a LLM "what is this tofu infrastructure as code tool I keep hearing about?" it will 100% tell you about the tool and not the food.

nothing is 100% with LLMs, except that they will make things up at some point

Search is also struggling more and more each day to surface the actually relevant results. It's part of why people are reaching to LLMs for things they used to search.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#222

Post by verdverm »

jen20 wrote: post #197
verdverm wrote: post #63

Well, I guess this is more motivation to leave HCL and anything related to TF... tofu? Poor naming choice imho, searching is going to be a terrible time, wonder how confused the ChatGPTs will get? I'm allergic to soy and derivatives like tofu, so not liking this name change A CUE powered solution will be much better anyway, go straight to the APIs for definitions, no intermediate, yet still unique, (leaky) abstractio…

> go straight to the APIs for definitions Do you really think no-one has tried that? The API definitions (even the good ones, like Azure) do not contain sufficient information to be able to build a declarative tool. Google seem to view their internal annotations about what is mutable or not as some kind of competitive advantage (bizarre). The AWS API is wildly poorly specified for building anything except 1-1 API wra…

Everything has gaps that need to be filled, the main point is that the object I send is the same shape and schema as the API, same for their responses and the data in the system.

TF under the hood is using these APIs through an abstraction. I say "go to the APIs" as (1) bypassing abstractions (2) in CUE, we can import the existing TF resource schemas from the Go types, or from the OpenAPI schemas. There are 2 camps in CUE about how to approach the CUE/TF/Helm/k8s intersection (one for each way)

CUE actually offers a really great space to enrich the APIs with the needed information.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#223

Post by Jka9rhnDJos »

Terretta wrote: post #143
georgyo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, so much this. HashiCorp pricing just made it simply impossible to pay them. Their plan was to provide a free offering that was very good, get companies hooked, and then charge our the nose for any enterprisy feature. The problem was how they charged, which they don't reveal until after you contact sales. You could build a solution using the free offering that works very well. Then years later want something pai…

> 1 million a year buys a lot of development and operational Not all that much. At a global enterprise, for instance, that buys a couple senior systems engineers with SDLC experience after you include all the per-employee overhead that doubles their cost beyond their comp. Terraform saves the enterprise far more than that in overhead. If Terraform provides even 10% lift across 1000 seats, that's many times its cost.…

Yeah, but it buys 3 senior consultants, and they’re a fixed cost/capital expense and can be cut at any time. Operationally, it’s not that expensive to keep a Terraform platform floating. It’s expensive to build, and most companies need it yesterday. But bring in 3 people to support a team to build it in a year, then cut them free when it’s in v1, and leave your team to iterate and update. And now you’re not paying $1mm a year or more after that forever.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#224

Post by jen20 »

verdverm wrote: post #222
jen20 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> go straight to the APIs for definitions Do you really think no-one has tried that? The API definitions (even the good ones, like Azure) do not contain sufficient information to be able to build a declarative tool. Google seem to view their internal annotations about what is mutable or not as some kind of competitive advantage (bizarre). The AWS API is wildly poorly specified for building anything except 1-1 API wra…

Everything has gaps that need to be filled, the main point is that the object I send is the same shape and schema as the API, same for their responses and the data in the system. TF under the hood is using these APIs through an abstraction. I say "go to the APIs" as (1) bypassing abstractions (2) in CUE, we can import the existing TF resource schemas from the Go types, or from the OpenAPI schemas. There are 2 camps i…

CUE or any other configuration language is orthogonal to whether or not a meaningful declarative provider (whether TF, Pulumi or anything else!) can be generated from a cloud provider API specification.

The only cloud that offers a really declarative API at all is Azure, via Resource Manager.

For AWS, since most APIs are request-response focused (AttachENI, DetachVolume and so forth), something has to tie all that together to make a resource-focused API.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#226

Post by notpushkin »

yuppiepuppie wrote: post #113
notpushkin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute punny name, I like it. Congrats on joining the LF, and keep up the good work!

I read it as "Open-to-fu", which could be construed in another way :)

Surprisingly you're not the first! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37581454

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#227

Post by ansraliant »

midoridensha wrote: post #35
cube2222 wrote: post #10

Hey! Interim tech lead of OpenTofu here. I'd like to add that as of today (announced just now at OSS Bilbao) we're officially part of the Linux Foundation[0]! Hope you like the new name (it basically won the votes anywhere it was proposed) and happy to answer any questions! [0]: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/press/announcing-opentofu

"OpenTofu" is cute, but tofu has nothing to do with terraforming. How about "Genesis" or "Reliant" or "Marcus" or "Kruge"?

[dead]

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#230

Post by x86x87 »

gigapotential wrote: post #229
reilly3000 wrote: post #228

That there is a pretty brilliant way out of a scary trademark situation. Props to the braintrust that made it so.

What was the trademark situation?

It was called OpenTF or OpenTerraform. Hashicorp might have had an issue with using the name Terraform.
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