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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#231

Post by hosh »

em-bee wrote: post #216
hosh wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Characterizing competition as exclusively individualistic is I think, a very limiting and overly simplistic way to see this. There is such a thing as collectives and institutions being competitive. Both cooperation and competition is part of the human psyche, and there is a place for competition as well (such as the refinement of personal character and development of capabilities). More problematically are such thing…

i agree, but that was not my point. this subthread started with a nitpick that overpowering competitive values would be self sabotaging as it would be employing the very thing it tries to get rid of. competition is if course not exclusively individualistic. but overpowering competitive values in my mind needs to mainly happen on the individual level. that is, individuals need to learn to be cooperative. there is stil…

I don’t see it as nitpicking so much as fundamental flaws with this approach. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#232

Post by ZeroGravitas »

NickC25 wrote: post #162
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think someone who was completely bought and paid for by the healthcare lobby was going to allow Obama to deploy a government-backed healthcare option, instead of the mess we got with the ACA? Are you talking about Biden, or every single Republican here?

Both, actually. I'm well aware that the GOP sucks, but the corporate wing of the Democratic party has put their foot down and voted with the GOP for way too long...especially on issues that are popular across the country even among different political demographics. Drug reform, immigration, education, healthcare, gun control, etc... Corporations donate lavishly to both parties because it's just too easy and cheap to…

Still getting heavy "both sides are the same!" vibes, which really isn't helpful (or remotely true).

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#233

Post by foogazi »

Tommstein wrote: post #176
adamwong246 wrote: post #53

“Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally” ~ Chris Rock Lots of yakking it up about how sad men are but it's all so disingenuous. My experience leads to me to believe that the moment a man asks for help is the moment he has lost the respect of his peers and, should he be so lucky, his female partner. Evolutionarily, men are disposable, and the workplaces and dating arenas we must inhabit reinforce it…

How can we forget this classic: "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton Men: not even the primary victims of their own gruesome battlefield deaths.

I get the point you are trying to make but who fights the wars ?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#234

Post by WatchDog »

diogenes4 wrote: post #213
WatchDog wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably just disagree with him about what constitutes anti-labor practices. I can't think of many other public figures that have spent as much time as him, advocating for blue collar work.

> I can't think of many other public figures that have spent as much time as him, advocating for blue collar work. The trick is not advocating for the work but the worker. Employment, without fail, sucks ass.

Don’t really agree with your assertion, but I imagine that blue collar work has much higher rates of self employment, compared to white collar work.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#235

Post by bitcharmer »

bloopernova wrote: post #143

Certainly some "interesting" voting and flagging going on here. With topics like this, which get a lot of comments that are flagged and hidden, I'd love to see a report on the page. Such a report could show whether multiple IPs/users are coordinating on hiding comments they find objectionable.

Sadly this is the case in many politically charged discussions here and it doesn't look like much is being done about it. In a submission about banning XL bully dogs in the UK opinions that went against one particularly active commenter were instantly down-voted and flagged. And that submission wasn't even popular. Just brigaded hard.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#236

Post by dang »

danjoredd wrote: post #118
quantified wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stacked against them more than girls? Explain please.

Did you read the article you are commenting on? He mentions that schools don't service men very well and that most dropouts are men

"Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that.""

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#237

Post by dang »

acdha wrote: post #11

The left talks about this all of the time, as do the middle and right. Pretending otherwise makes me question whether the author is actually trying to help or simply sell his book.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological battle. I'm sure that wasn't your intention and also that the title is provocative in that direction, but when the topic is inflammatory, it takes a conscious effort not to feed flamewar. We ended up with a bad one here and your comment was the root of it.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#238

Post by em-bee »

hosh wrote: post #231
em-bee wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree, but that was not my point. this subthread started with a nitpick that overpowering competitive values would be self sabotaging as it would be employing the very thing it tries to get rid of. competition is if course not exclusively individualistic. but overpowering competitive values in my mind needs to mainly happen on the individual level. that is, individuals need to learn to be cooperative. there is stil…

I don’t see it as nitpicking so much as fundamental flaws with this approach. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

there is maybe one more aspect here: i see "overpowering" as a metaphor not meant to be taken literally. i mean how would that even work? i see only one way to get rid of a competitive mindset: to teach children to be cooperative. the "overpowering" aspect would simply be that more people do that than people who teach their children to be competitive, and that women convince their husbands that teaching children to be competitive is not a good idea. unless we then start scoring who got more kids and husbands to stop being competitive, how is this "overpowering" competitive in itself? it's just strength in numbers.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#239

Post by mortureb »

orwin wrote: post #220
mortureb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No fault divorces are absolutely necessary. If the judges disproportionately favor the woman instead of the man, it's a issue with the justice system, not the law. My great grandmother, Marie-Madeleine, and her sister Mercedes were both married/promised to their older cousins (2nd degree, so quite close) to make sure the family business stayed in the family (no brothers, only 3 sisters). My great-grandmother probably…

You can be divorced with no financial support then which is really the crux of the issue.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#240

Post by acdha »

dang wrote: post #237
acdha wrote: post #11

The left talks about this all of the time, as do the middle and right. Pretending otherwise makes me question whether the author is actually trying to help or simply sell his book.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological battle. I'm sure that wasn't your intention and also that the title is provocative in that direction, but when the topic is inflammatory, it takes a conscious effort not to feed flamewar. We ended up with a bad one here and your comment was the root of it. " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " " Eschew fl…

Feel free to delete the thread. The only reason I left a comment was because people often complain about stories being flagged without explanation and I didn’t think an intentionally provocative article would lead to a positive discussion.
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