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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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201–210 of 327 posts

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#201
post #11

The left talks about this all of the time, as do the middle and right. Pretending otherwise makes me question whether the author is actually trying to help or simply sell his book.

The overwhelming way the left talks about it is in terms of "toxic" masculinity or through the perspective of feminism. The latter is a valid perspective, but dominates the discourse which is hardly a balanced approach.

Feminism is about equality, for men too.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#202
post #177
post #11

The left talks about this all of the time, as do the middle and right. Pretending otherwise makes me question whether the author is actually trying to help or simply sell his book.

The litmus test is whether the issues are being treated like an (apocryphal?) Medieval witch test, where you are a witch regardless of the outcome. For example, the fact that males disproportionately commit suicide is blamed on toxic masculinity - lack of vulnerability, cultural self esteem issues or whatever. Ok, fair enough; now the counterfactual is, what if females disproportionately committed suicide? It's prett…

> Ok, fair enough; now the counterfactual is, what if females disproportionately committed suicide? It's pretty clear that it would be diagnosed on the left as related to toxic masculinity too.

This is not at all clear to me.

Women are actually more likely to attempt suicide then men, yet men are more likely to succeed. If what you say is true we should already be able to observe the phenomenon you describe. So where is it?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Girls mature faster, and learn differently. Frankly, a lot of boys simply cannot sit still in a classroom and listen to a boring lecture. They're going to be inattentive and they're going to have more behavioral issues. The solution is more hands on learning, and more physical activity. Gym class isn't even available to many kids anymore. Pretty much everyone should be getting an hour of physical activity a day and y…

> Girls mature faster They act more mature because they're pressured to by society. I won't bombard you with articles but I urge you to look into the causes behind that saying.

They have a physical growth spurt before boys do, that's got nothing to do with "society".

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But overall, young men hit the labor market or college or whatever less well-prepared as a result of the education system. No facts about it, just some random assertion. Schools aren't going to change the way males relate to playing games, sports, and farting around in general compared with actually studying. What other part of the article did I miss? Oh, this: > the education system isn’t doing very well by lots o…

>Do male teachers make that much difference? You would be surprised. A boy having a male mentor is extremely helpful. Oftentimes an adult male can connect with boys in ways that an adult female might have trouble with. Teachers, for better or worse, are mentors. They are who kids spend the most time around during school semesters, and where they receive the most instruction, outside of parents. Now don't get me wrong…

It's also a factor that many boys are growing up without a present father whether it is a single parent family or a multiple parent family where the father is working all the time, not emotionally available, etc. If they are not getting that role model it is all the more important that they get another role model.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#206
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming way the left talks about it is in terms of "toxic" masculinity or through the perspective of feminism. The latter is a valid perspective, but dominates the discourse which is hardly a balanced approach.

Is not toxic masculinity. Is toxic humanity.

Why is everyone in this thread falling over themselves and starting every response with "as a liberal" or something similar? People are so afraid of talking openly about how insane the left has become that they don't see how their very responses are indicative of how the left will try to harm them in some way e.g. "how insane the left has become".

Sure 20 years ago the sides were reversed but now the hypocrisy is mostly on the left ( I didnt say all), specifically when it comes to how we treat both sexes.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#207

Richard Reeves is originally from the left, and there is a podcast interview of him by Ezra Klein (titled "the boys are not alright"). In the interview he describes how he was drawn to feminism and looking at gender inequality, and by looking at the data became convinced that boys and men were a neglected cause. He was then frustrated as other researchers and policy people had no interest in that form of inequality.…

Can we have an example of toxic masculinity? I've never once received a real definition in a debate like this and when I'm close to it, the other side tries to make it sound like they are sympathetic to toxic masculinity.

For example, I've had it told to me that I shouldnt have my son help me with changing my car's oil because thats putting some sort of burden on him at an early age. Does this sound like something a sane person would say? I would go as far to give the benefit of the doubt and say no, most people are sane and the ones that would make this type of argument are drawn into a social mania.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#208

Richard Reeves is originally from the left, and there is a podcast interview of him by Ezra Klein (titled "the boys are not alright"). In the interview he describes how he was drawn to feminism and looking at gender inequality, and by looking at the data became convinced that boys and men were a neglected cause. He was then frustrated as other researchers and policy people had no interest in that form of inequality.…

> empathy is not a zero sum game. But we are biased to empathize more with women than men, both women and men are biased that way. That is the core of "toxic masculinity", we need everyone to empathize more with men, but instead due to low empathy for men all they say is "just work on your own problems, it isn't that bad for you!!". There isn't much you can do in that situation, the low empathy burden men are shoulde…

It is a tough cognitive dissonance for most people to hold in their minds: men behaving toxically require more emotional support, not less.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#209
post #187
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in new zealand men can't get a job as a kindergarten or primary school teacher (not sure about middle or high school) because parents won't have it.

Do you have more information about that? I know there’s a big gender skew but that’s nowhere near as simple as “men can’t get a job” and has multiple causes.

not really, i got this from a friend who is the director of a private school. he told me that he was unable to hire any male staff because parents would not accept that, and even he himself had to stay far away from the kids.

also i believe that this director surely checked if other nearby schools had male staff when evaluating the feedback he got from parents before making a general claim. (because if parents complain about male staff then i'd want to know if they would be able to find any schools that didn't have male teachers.) so i do not believe that this was an isolated incident.

it is possible that this was a regional phenomenon and not indicative for the whole country, but it certainly shows that the sentiment "man working in daycare is frowned upon" is definitely a thing and not something made up nor an exaggeration of reality.

i believe the only way to counter that is to demand gender parity among teachers. children need male and female role models and gender parity or something close to it is the only way to achieve that.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#210
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they struggling, but as opposed to what when compared to women? Boys and men do worse on a number of things compared to girls and women within, say, US society: * Worse grades in school * More frequently disciplined in school * Lower college attendance and graduation rates * Weaker friend networks/less emotional support for adult men * More likely to be imprisoned/found guilty of crimes (especially violent ones…

Follow up question, is there a country this doesn't hold true in that otherwise has gender equality?

I dunno if there are any countries with gender equality if you're using a relatively strict definition, as even ones known for greater gender equality still have stark differences in some areas, like occupational choice.
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