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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#161

Post by bloopernova »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #132
quantified wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stacked against them more than girls? Explain please.

Girls mature faster, and learn differently. Frankly, a lot of boys simply cannot sit still in a classroom and listen to a boring lecture. They're going to be inattentive and they're going to have more behavioral issues. The solution is more hands on learning, and more physical activity. Gym class isn't even available to many kids anymore. Pretty much everyone should be getting an hour of physical activity a day and y…

> Girls mature faster

They act more mature because they're pressured to by society. I won't bombard you with articles but I urge you to look into the causes behind that saying.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#162

Post by NickC25 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #149
NickC25 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but they also vote in politicians who don't really do much to help those issues beyond giving them lip service. Multiple Democratic presidents have not done anything substantial to address some of the issues you mentioned. Not saying that the GOP is better, they are objectively far worse. But the Democrats have squandered every chance to really help this country in meaningful drastic ways. Shit, Biden was TH…

> You think someone who was completely bought and paid for by the healthcare lobby was going to allow Obama to deploy a government-backed healthcare option, instead of the mess we got with the ACA? Are you talking about Biden, or every single Republican here?

Both, actually.

I'm well aware that the GOP sucks, but the corporate wing of the Democratic party has put their foot down and voted with the GOP for way too long...especially on issues that are popular across the country even among different political demographics. Drug reform, immigration, education, healthcare, gun control, etc... Corporations donate lavishly to both parties because it's just too easy and cheap to do so, plus the promise of having whatever party is in power completely subservient to your interests is quite appealing if you're a CEO.

I'd love a president who actively goes out of their way to fuck Wall Street, Big Pharma, Big Healthcare, Bio Oil, etc... but the last politician to attempt to do that on the national level was Bernie, and he got shafted.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#163

Post by nvm0n2 »

tomtheelder wrote: post #96
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're seeing is the support amongst your bros. That's great. That doesn't equate to discussion on 'the left'. You don't see it being discussed much in books, podcasts, blog posts, documentaries etc, except on the right.

But I see it discussed in left leaning media all the time. Topics like male suicide rates, loneliness, and social pressure against showing emotion come up over and over again.

But the diagnosis of what causes those ills will be some variant of "men just suck and bring it on themselves, how can we help them be more like women?"

What people mean here is talking about problems imposed on men by society and how to fix that, not discussion that merely boils down to repeating feminist talking points. For example, one issue affecting men is the way they are vulnerable to immediate and vicious punishment if any woman anywhere makes allegations regardless of whether they are substantiated or even eventually proven false. Try bringing that up with your friends and see what happens.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#164

Post by klyrs »

chasebank wrote: post #136
klyrs wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad would tell other men "don't be a pussy," an attitude that is far from dead on the right. I've read a lot of advice from left, "men, seek therapy." I'm not sure that either side has a monopoly on positive/negative framing.

I'm confident that attitude is directionally agnostic. Most of the guys I'm surrounded by lean heavily left and still use "don't be a pussy" regularly.

Well, I was trying to avoid pointing out the wide gulf between "the left" and "feminism" which are being equated here, but your anecdote does a great job of that.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#166

Post by david38 »

dustedrob wrote: post #74
mellosouls wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming way the left talks about it is in terms of "toxic" masculinity or through the perspective of feminism. The latter is a valid perspective, but dominates the discourse which is hardly a balanced approach.

[flagged]

This is so full of crap it’s nothing but sheer fantasy.

Majority of male health issues?

By your own description you had a personally bad experience (sample of one) during childhood that you compare to your wife, someone you chose likely BECAUSE of your experiences during adulthood.

Your comparison is so off-base and sample size so small as to be meaningless.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#167

Post by mortureb »

n3storm wrote: post #85
mellosouls wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming way the left talks about it is in terms of "toxic" masculinity or through the perspective of feminism. The latter is a valid perspective, but dominates the discourse which is hardly a balanced approach.

Is not toxic masculinity. Is toxic humanity.

It’s not toxic anything.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#168

Post by mortureb »

klyrs wrote: post #90
hellisothers wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe what the OP is getting at is the masculinity discussion on the left is predominantly about what not to do while the discussion on the right is more often about what to do. If the left doesn’t provide a framework and examples of what positive masculinity looks like it presents a risk of young impressionable people draping themselves over the framework that is being provided by others.

My dad would tell other men "don't be a pussy," an attitude that is far from dead on the right. I've read a lot of advice from left, "men, seek therapy." I'm not sure that either side has a monopoly on positive/negative framing.

Don’t be a pussy is still very good advice.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#169

Post by nvm0n2 »

jokoon wrote: post #18

[flagged]

> Women had less rights for a long time

There were much more clearly defined gender roles but this wasn't the same as fewer rights. For example lots of people claim that in the past men all had the vote and no women did, in reality the franchise in the past was mostly determined by land ownership and similar. Lots of men also didn't have it.

One obvious right women had in the past that men did not was the right to not be drafted into the army.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#170

Post by mortureb »

quantified wrote: post #115
cultofmetatron wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who has largely progressive values, I hesitate to call myself liberal anymore because of a lot of the downright embarrasing shit comming from the left these days. > The left talks about this all of the time, every time I've seen leftists talk about this. its always in the form of gaslighting men into blaming themselves for their failures. as if the k-12 educational system isn't currently stacked against th…

Stacked against them more than girls? Explain please.

Guys are in a vast majority of the case not conducive to being diminutive recipients. This doesn’t work well in the current educational paradigm.
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