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Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

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Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#91

Post by UncleOxidant »

crazygringo wrote: post #43
hosh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, can you give examples? I hear this issue pretty loudly from the right, but not really much from the left. I know ordinary people talk about this issue, but it isn't the same as people in positions of power or influence.

Basically all of the liberal publications treat it as a major topic every so often. A hugely shared article from 2 months ago in WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/10/christine... Also in the Atlantic last year: https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/21-r... This is just off the top of my head, but it's easy to do a Google search.

Has the Overton window shifted to the right so much that The Atlantic is now considered liberal? It always seemed pretty centrist.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#92

Post by zzzeek »

hellisothers wrote: post #81
zzzeek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I believe what the OP is getting at is the masculinity discussion on the left is predominantly about what not to do while the discussion on the right is more often about what to do. If the left doesn’t provide a framework and examples of what positive masculinity looks like it presents a risk of young impressionable people draping themselves over the framework that is being provided by others.

[flagged]

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#93

Post by majormajor »

amelius wrote: post #29
jokoon wrote: post #18

[flagged]

> Women had less rights for a long time Women always had different kinds of rights, like expressing themselves more with emotions and clothing and cosmetics, etc., and taking care of children. Men don't have these rights. A man working in daycare is frowned upon. A man wearing eyeshadow is frowned upon, a man sending heart ♥ emoticons in WhatsApp is frowned upon, etc. It seems fair that if women claim more rights, th…

Are any of those things what people care about when they talk about "men's rights" or higher male suicide rates, jobless rates, etc, and the resulting need for "traditional masculinity" though... they mostly seem like the opposite!

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#94

Post by wGEric »

hosh wrote: post #20
acdha wrote: post #11

The left talks about this all of the time, as do the middle and right. Pretending otherwise makes me question whether the author is actually trying to help or simply sell his book.

I'm curious, can you give examples? I hear this issue pretty loudly from the right, but not really much from the left. I know ordinary people talk about this issue, but it isn't the same as people in positions of power or influence.

The left talks about stagnate wages, rising costs of college, and healthcare all the time. They talk about it as issues for everyone and not just men. Raising minimum wage helps everyone including men. Making college cheaper and easier to access helps everyone including men. Free healthcare helps everyone including men.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#95

Post by pixl97 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #50
clipsy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men have the rights to do all of those things.

But you sure can get your head stuffed in a trash can in some places for it.

Where is assault legal in the US?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#96

Post by tomtheelder »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #76
tomtheelder wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just doesn’t line up with my experience whatsoever. For my friends on the left it’s a common topic, and I see it discussed in left leaning publications all the time. I wonder when I see these characterizations of the left if they are coming from social media. I’m not on any social media aside from this site I guess, so I’m not sure if that’s what’s going on. The folks on the left that I interact with in real lif…

What you're seeing is the support amongst your bros. That's great. That doesn't equate to discussion on 'the left'. You don't see it being discussed much in books, podcasts, blog posts, documentaries etc, except on the right.

But I see it discussed in left leaning media all the time. Topics like male suicide rates, loneliness, and social pressure against showing emotion come up over and over again.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#97

Post by pixl97 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #57
jokoon wrote: post #18

[flagged]

> Are they struggling, but as opposed to what when compared to women? Boys and men do worse on a number of things compared to girls and women within, say, US society: * Worse grades in school * More frequently disciplined in school * Lower college attendance and graduation rates * Weaker friend networks/less emotional support for adult men * More likely to be imprisoned/found guilty of crimes (especially violent ones…

Follow up question, is there a country this doesn't hold true in that otherwise has gender equality?

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#98

Post by pixl97 »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #21
jokoon wrote: post #18

[flagged]

What you are talking about are communities. Communities of people who help each other and cooperate, instead of competing because the goal isn't to win, it's to coexist.

Communities aren't profitable for corporations. You must be a rugged individual that does everything themselves (including buying our self help program and set of tools to make your life better).

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#99

Post by clipsy »

PaulHoule wrote: post #73
clipsy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By whom?

Your fellow man.

From the post I originally replied to:

> It seems fair that if women claim more rights, then men can claim some of these "soft" rights too.

So it seems the argument is that because men prevent other men from exercising their rights, women deserve to be stripped of rights? Interesting logic. If men are stopping you from exercising your rights perhaps you should listen to the folks talking about toxic masculinity -- which is exactly what you're describing -- rather than trying to punish women.

Re: Boys and Men in the United States Are Struggling. The Left Should Talk About It

#100

Post by gopherthon »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #57
jokoon wrote: post #18

[flagged]

> Are they struggling, but as opposed to what when compared to women? Boys and men do worse on a number of things compared to girls and women within, say, US society: * Worse grades in school * More frequently disciplined in school * Lower college attendance and graduation rates * Weaker friend networks/less emotional support for adult men * More likely to be imprisoned/found guilty of crimes (especially violent ones…

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