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OpenTF is now OpenTofu

github.com

191–200 of 260 posts

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#191

The criticism of hashicorp seems childish. Why shouldn't they restrict the way in which companies make money from their inventions as they see fit? There's a lot of thoughtless entitlement among some of the attitudes being expressed in this debate.

This discussion ship has sailed.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#192
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGPL is seen as a no-go by most companies. It's viewed as risky because the obligations associated with it are often unclear.

The entire Grafana LGTM stack is phenomenal, and it’s widely used.

Grafana is dual licensed however since they, relatively recently, switched to AGPL.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#193

As a total outsider, what's wrong with "TF"? Doesn't a penis picture as a github symbol rather bother anyone?

It's more practical and less hilarious.

There is a thing called acronym, abbreviation, or initialism copyright.

For Hashicorp's Terraform, "TF" is a well recognized abbreviation.

Hashicorp can't prohibit anyone from using "TF" in all areas, but it can argue that "OpenTF" confuses users that expect anything "TF" to mean "Terraform".

You can probably create a "OpenTF juice maker" without problem but OpenTofu especifically is in the same area as Hashicorp's Terraform, so it's better to avoid any trouble there.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#194
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGPL is seen as a no-go by most companies. It's viewed as risky because the obligations associated with it are often unclear.

Then they can pay for an alternative licence for their closed source project. It's a win/win/win, open source projects will still support it, so you don't get the backlash from the community, while those who just want to take will either pay or find a different project. With BSL and similar, you end up looking like the "bad guy", and the forkers look like the "good guys". With AGPL you will still look like the open s…

I don’t know how effective it is in general but dual licensing like Grafana now does seems a reasonable option.

I assume there may be forks of the older code but I don’t actually know.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#195

Well, I guess this is more motivation to leave HCL and anything related to TF... tofu? Poor naming choice imho, searching is going to be a terrible time, wonder how confused the ChatGPTs will get? I'm allergic to soy and derivatives like tofu, so not liking this name change A CUE powered solution will be much better anyway, go straight to the APIs for definitions, no intermediate, yet still unique, (leaky) abstractio…

Modern search engines and LLMs have no trouble distinguishing between different things with the same name. Google Trends will even show you something is a product, a service, a book, whatever. If you ask a LLM "what is this tofu infrastructure as code tool I keep hearing about?" it will 100% tell you about the tool and not the food.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, so much this. HashiCorp pricing just made it simply impossible to pay them. Their plan was to provide a free offering that was very good, get companies hooked, and then charge our the nose for any enterprisy feature. The problem was how they charged, which they don't reveal until after you contact sales. You could build a solution using the free offering that works very well. Then years later want something pai…

> 1 million a year buys a lot of development and operational Not all that much. At a global enterprise, for instance, that buys a couple senior systems engineers with SDLC experience after you include all the per-employee overhead that doubles their cost beyond their comp. Terraform saves the enterprise far more than that in overhead. If Terraform provides even 10% lift across 1000 seats, that's many times its cost.…

You've either done a lot of tech sales yourself or bought into the kool-aid software salespeople hand out. Their bread and butter is overstating per-engineer costs and hardware ownership costs, but it doesn't mean they're right.

In many places in europe you can hire a team of ~10 engineers already fully loaded for $1 million a year, or like 2 seniors and 4 midlevels or any combo like this. This is based off of 1st hand experience hiring for these salaries.

Re: OpenTF is now OpenTofu

#197

Well, I guess this is more motivation to leave HCL and anything related to TF... tofu? Poor naming choice imho, searching is going to be a terrible time, wonder how confused the ChatGPTs will get? I'm allergic to soy and derivatives like tofu, so not liking this name change A CUE powered solution will be much better anyway, go straight to the APIs for definitions, no intermediate, yet still unique, (leaky) abstractio…

> go straight to the APIs for definitions

Do you really think no-one has tried that?

The API definitions (even the good ones, like Azure) do not contain sufficient information to be able to build a declarative tool. Google seem to view their internal annotations about what is mutable or not as some kind of competitive advantage (bizarre). The AWS API is wildly poorly specified for building anything except 1-1 API wrappers. (Cloud Control improves it, but covers few important resources).

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