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We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

ifixit.com

341–350 of 367 posts

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the phone doesn't turn on you can't authorize the removal. And if it turns on but a factory reset is enough to let you authorize the removal, you're back to square 1. Either way it's not feasible.

the phone is likely linked to an apple account. seems reasonable that if the components are approved for a specific phone and that phone is linked to an icloud account, that account could permit a swap?

That assumes that you managed to ask the previous owner to log into iCloud on another phone and "free" the previous one for repairs. I guess you could do that if he's buying a new iPhone from you, but still... it is similar to the Macs that are stuck on the previous owner's enterprise account.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#342

I completely fail to understand the anti-theft argument, help me out here. So the theory is that, once thieves will see you're carrying an Iphone, they won't bother taking it. But why? You're already being mugged, everything that's even remotely valuable will be taken. Why would they let their victims go, just because their valuables are more difficult to flip? "Give me all your valuables - oh wait, that's an iphone,…

> You're already being mugged, everything that's even remotely valuable will be taken. Why

That's your mistake right there, the challenge to steal isn't identical for different things, and also depends on the things.

For examle, there are plenty of cases where the thiefs snatch the phone from your hand (even while you're still talking), so making resale value low helps here

> you're carrying an expensive af iphone, chances are you can afford

That's the second easy mistake - the "chances" can be low, so the fact that you hypotheticall can afford doesn't help the actual criminal much (if you're jogging with a phone chances that you carry much valuable besides the phone is very low).

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#343
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. If Apple was honest, they'd have an 'unlock from account' security, not an 'accept new to account' pairing.

but you'd have to make it to not be something to be done from an iDevice. it would have to be through the website. otherwise, how do you know it's not a still a malicious approval?

Yep, a web portal similar to what apple does with Find My would cover it nicely I think.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#344

I completely fail to understand the anti-theft argument, help me out here. So the theory is that, once thieves will see you're carrying an Iphone, they won't bother taking it. But why? You're already being mugged, everything that's even remotely valuable will be taken. Why would they let their victims go, just because their valuables are more difficult to flip? "Give me all your valuables - oh wait, that's an iphone,…

Thieves used to return blackberries

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#345

There is also another issue why Apple is restricting "part harvesting": theft. iCloud locks or Samsung's KNOX lock entered the field because the manufacturers were pretty pissed that customers using their devices in public became a target for "enterprising" robbers who'd factory-wipe the devices and flip them to a pawn shop or second-hand store in a matter of half an hour. When people are afraid to use your products…

If Apple has a record of the individual serial numbers on parts contained in each phone, that seems like a wonderful way of backtracking stolen phone parts to the thieves.

"Oh you're trying to replace your phone screen with one from a stolen item. Please provide your contact details so we can pass that on to the police."

Doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. ;)

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#346

There is also another issue why Apple is restricting "part harvesting": theft. iCloud locks or Samsung's KNOX lock entered the field because the manufacturers were pretty pissed that customers using their devices in public became a target for "enterprising" robbers who'd factory-wipe the devices and flip them to a pawn shop or second-hand store in a matter of half an hour. When people are afraid to use your products…

It's really stupid. How many people get their devices not stolen vs stolen. I would bet 99% is conservative? sounds like an excuse to just make it harder to repair and make the product useless much earlier.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#347
post #301
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame you don’t have rules against advocating for violent criminal conduct! One would really hope that would be addressed before tone-policing the criticisms of that.

If a post is unambiguously "advocating for violent criminal conduct" that's one thing, but I don't think your interpretation is something most people would call obvious. In fact, one could argue that it's another way in which you broke the site guidelines, which include: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " -…

Multiple people on this page are relating their experience of being choked into unconsciousness with a knife at your throat, or behind held at knife point and forced to unlock their phones, and OP here is concerned about whether the parts being unusable afterwards will complicate repairs.

Even in the most charitable interpretation OP doesn't care about that but is concerned about false lockout signals, an extreme edge case. Like man screw the people getting knifed over this, right? I might have to call support!

You’ve allowed a noxious, pernicious environment to fester here on HN around this topic. It's normally pretty good but some of these Apple threads are really something else. NVIDIA threads get spicy too but Apple threads bring out all the crazies.

And yes, I do think that's a legitimate strand of thought among Android customers. They don't care if it's stolen, as long as they get cheaper parts and repairs, I've had people say it outright. If you want to counter this in the marketplace of ideas, you kinda have to address the elephant in the room that this is tacitly (or not-so-tacitly) encouraging violent crime. Which sets up this unnecessarily narrow line for one side of the argument - gosh, we can't be too impolite disagreeing with the side advocating violent crime!

"wow, I just want to knife you and steal your phone, but I respect your opinion too, this is a complex issue with a lot of concerns to balance, looks like you have some real growing-up to do!" is exactly the reason HN traffic is not welcomed at some domains. Because of your encouragement of that discourse, and your unwillingness to restrain it when it happens. There are much more serious issues where people's lives are at immediate threat, and you'll find a lot of those places have stopped welcoming HN traffic because they don't want to deal with this... and you override it anyway.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#348
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a post is unambiguously "advocating for violent criminal conduct" that's one thing, but I don't think your interpretation is something most people would call obvious. In fact, one could argue that it's another way in which you broke the site guidelines, which include: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " -…

I appreciate the way you put this, dang. You're right that I was misinterpreted: I am advocating for a way to unlock the (perfectly good and fully functional) parts that doesn't involve throwing them away and buying new ones. I'm upset that Apple has gone the route of remote bricking with no recourse but to throw them away, not complaining that Apple is making theft harder. Painting me as a "violent criminal" for tha…

If you wanted to talk about erroneous lockout signals, you could have mentioned literally anything about that topic in your post.

This is your entire comment, italicised portion is the one I quoted, which should have made it pretty clear what part I was responding to.

> If the solution to theft is "remotely brick parts that work perfectly," it is a shitty solution that doesn't deserve consideration. Doubly so when Apple's workaround for that is "pay us even more money to double the e-waste by having us send you another perfectly working part, but ~verified~!"

Which portion of this is discussing erroneous lockout signals, or can be inferred to be referring to such? Specific quotation please. Seems pretty straightforward that "lockout results in usable parts becoming unusable after a theft" which yeah, that's the point!

Regardless though, "I don't care about the people on this page who were choked into unconsciousness at knife-point because of extremely-occasional erroneous lockout signals" (has this ever happened to you or anyone you know?) is not much better than "I don't care about people on this page who were choked into unconsciousness at knife-point because I get cheaper parts and repairs".

And I know it's uncouth to point that out here, but it doesn't change it. Even the way you intended it was callous.

You're just willfully ignoring the consequences of your actions because of extreme edge-cases, and ignoring the actual physical edge-case here. People get mugged every day, how often have any of your devices or anyone you know received an erroneous lock-out signal? For me that answer is zero. Could it happen? Maybe, I guess, not really a real problem that I've ever seen or heard.

Why do you think this is a problem worth putting life at risk over?

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#349
post #170
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ability to classify everyone who doesn't agree with you as an "Apple fanboy" is equally amazing to me.

What else would you call someone who doesn't care about repairability in the slightest because they're just going to buy whatever new version of their favorite brand's product comes out next year for full price regardless of how similar it is, if not a fanboy?

I think it's dishonest to call Apple devices not repairable because Apple offers a lot of repair options. If you want to promote independent repair centers and non-Apple repairs just state that. Otherwise you're just an independent repair fanboy ;)

Most Apple devices are used for years, sold to or given to people requiring the latest since they are not worthless after a short time. I'm not sure what those people you talk about do with their year old iPhones.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#350
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't make that argument at all, so it's pretty annoying that you've cornered me into arguing it. I really don't respect when people do this. I never, ever argued against "actions to stop it". I argued against this action. I never argued that my anecdata that my phone has never been stolen means that all action against theft are unnecessary, but I believe it is good cause for me to want a phone that doesn't have e…

No one is forcing you to argue that position. You said “my phone has never been stolen… Apple shouldn’t solve this… sell me a steal-able phone”. My counter is that a primary reason you never had a stolen phone is the anti-theft solutions implemented by private companies. Personally, I think removing the incentives to theft is a great way to reduce it, and this is particularly effective. Sure repair-ability would be n…

> No one is forcing you to argue that position. You said “my phone has never been stolen… Apple shouldn’t solve this… sell me a steal-able phone”.

Once again, no I didn't. Hell, the snippet "Apple shouldn’t solve this" doesn't even appear in my text.

At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe you're being deliberate in doing this, because I don't understand the need to paraphrase me. If I didn't think all of those details and qualifiers were necessary, I would've just left them out myself. And while I understand that my writing is not succinct, it's not like I wrote a novel, so why not just quote what I actually said? Otherwise, it feels like I'm just having to explain how my position differs from the one you're arguing against.

> My counter is that a primary reason you never had a stolen phone is the anti-theft solutions implemented by private companies.

I will quote myself:

> I never, ever argued against "actions to stop it". I argued against this action.

Note that while I have owned a couple iPhones, the last iPhone I owned only had one "paired part" that I am aware of. I am not arguing against iCloud locking as a concept. I am not arguing against all anti-theft measures.

I can see why someone may miss this from the first comment I made, since well, I didn't explicitly say that part. However, at this point, I don't understand what else I can say.

> Personally, I think removing the incentives to theft is a great way to reduce it, and this is particularly effective. Sure repair-ability would be nice, but I repair it so infrequently and it’s sufficiently cheap that I don’t mind. As an example, expecting the police to successfully hunt and remedy every petty theft of all the phones that would be stolen instead would be a lot less resource efficient for society. We have enough crime as is that the police have better things to do than fail to find a lost phone.

I am not suggesting police go and try to find every lost phone. I am suggesting that we have a serious societal problem and we're not really doing anything about the problem itself. The fact that police can't handle every single case suggests to me that it's completely out of control. It'd worse if this was the same for e.g. shoplifting, or breaking and entering... which it is, in some areas. But we don't accept that as "normal", and we shouldn't accept this as normal either.

I realize you were explicit about the fact that police action was just an example of something that one could do, but I find it interesting that it is the example you would go to. While a lot could be said about Japan, with far less prisoners and prosecution, they have generally a lot less issue with crimes like these in particular based on both anecdotal evidence and published statistics, yet it feels like it is a foregone conclusion that there's nothing that can be done about all of this petty theft. I call shenanigans.

Furthermore, while this may sound reasonable in an era of disposable phones and new shiny toys every year, I think it's a horrid long-term outlook. To me paired parts isn't worth it: it's a threat to sustainability and civil rights, as I think Apple's practices tend to be widely emulated regardless of whether or not the outcome for consumers is ultimately good. It's already getting harder and harder to buy computers, new or used, that do what you tell them to. Paired parts is just another dark step in the wrong direction.

In the future, Apple product launches will be measured in the volume increase they make to landfills.

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