Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–108 of 108 posts

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#101

Post by yowzadave »

anthonypasq wrote: post #94
yowzadave wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen what streets in Japan look like? Very narrow, very walkable, views unobstructed by rows of cars; the streets become a place for interaction, a place for children to play, etc. It works because street parking is not allowed.

there so many compounding elements that make it difficult to transition to something like Tokyo. Things in America are big because we had room and built our cities around big things. if you make the average parking spot the size of a parking spot in Tokyo, 95% of american cars wouldnt fit. and no one really uses mopeds because the streets are full of giant cars traveling very fast. And people need cars in the first p…

> And people need cars in the first place because cities arent dense enough, and therefore harder to justify public transit because the density isnt there etc.

...and housing is too expensive because cities strongly resist increasing density. We have indeed found ourselves in a cycle of dysfunction.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#102

Post by breuleux »

userbinator wrote: post #92
breuleux wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You control the population through psychological isolation, not physical isolation. In general, people driving cars are no harder to control than people without cars. They are no harder to track. Like, at all. You also have to realize that the only car that increases your freedom is your own: everybody else's reduces your freedom. They take a lot of space, they make a lot of noise, they reduce visibility, they hinder…

True freedom includes the freedom to do things others might not like. I happen to like the space and enjoy the noise.[1] So does nearly everyone around me. You can squeeze together in your claustrophobic factory-farm cities if you like, but leave those who don't out of it. [1] I highly recommend taking a ride in a 70s "land yacht" with a mildly tuned engine sometime. It might change your perception of cars entirely i…

You enjoy the noise of cars rolling next to you when you are dining on a terrace? You like to listen to their sweet lullaby when you are reading on your balcony? That's... interesting, I guess?

We are not talking about freedom, we are talking about entitlement. You are not entitled to free parking on the side of streets, nor to be able to drive on every single street, nor to do so at a high speed, nor to be as noisy as you want to be. Other people have needs too. People need space to walk, they need space to bike, and in many cases this space has to be taken from space that was previously dedicated to cars, because that's all there is. It's only fair.

In any case, no one is forcing you to live in a city. Live wherever you want. But many people like them, and people who like cities tend to like them even more when there are fewer cars (not zero -- fewer). If you don't like it, that's fine. Stay in your paradise, and stay out of ours (or park at the bus station).

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#103

Post by Eldt »

Vaslo wrote: post #93
JambalayaJim wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agreed. Just about everything within 10 minutes drive is a total fantasy in my experience. Whether you’re in the suburbs driving or walking in the urban centre. The only difference is that walking is much more pleasant. That said, if you expand your time radius to 15 minutes, and allow the use of bikes and/or a good subway system, “just about everything” becomes very realistic.

Not everyone can or wants to ride a bike everywhere. Stop this fallacious thinking. Many people don’t care about and will never care about using bikes, nor should they be forced to. I also have no interest in waiting around for a subway car. It’s nice to just hop into my car and get to my destination (most within 15 minutes of my home) and get back. I don’t have time to wait around or ride a bike in the rain. The ent…

If only there were other factors to consider other than your convenience...

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#104

Post by ultrarunner »

coffeedan wrote: post #73
dalke wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has anyone moved from a semi-dense area where just about anything was within a 10 minute drive, to a situation where they didn't use a car and still lived a decent efficient life? I used to live in Sante Fe, New Mexico in the US. The city was founded in 1610. The city core for the first 300 years was of course walkable, but the last grocery store downtown closed around 2000 so it's a mile walk to the nearest store…

>>> biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe Genuinely curious, what makes biking not an option in Santa Fe?

The American West is generally very sprawled (the big-box stores with a sea of parking as GP puts it above), and because of that speed limits are relatively high (but never high enough to be efficient). Coupled with close to zero protected bike lanes, and often times not even a sidewalk, it's just not reasonable to try your luck against the lifestyl^H^Hwork trucks. Last time I was in Santa Fe I stepped out of my hotel to go for a run, realized that was not exactly what the city designers had in mind, and just headed back in for the treadmill. I've played that game and it's just not worth the hassle, sadly.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#105

Post by ultrarunner »

jjallen wrote: post #39
Arainach wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per-business lots are incredibly inefficient. They have to optimize for peak demand or lose sales during crucial peak seasons - when was thr last time you saw a Walmart parking lot full? They make it more difficult to visit multiple stops in one trip. Instead of parking downtown, going to an appointment and grabbing lunch I have to move my car in between those trips, generating more emissions and waste.

> when was thr last time you saw a Walmart parking lot full? Sounds like they could make them much smaller > They make it more difficult to visit multiple stops in one trip. Instead of parking downtown, going to an appointment and grabbing lunch I have to move my car in between those trips, generating more emissions and waste. A general, private garage is an existing possible solution to this problem.

> Sounds like they could make them much smaller

This is usually regulated by zoning laws, and Walmart (et al) have no say in the matter.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#106

Post by JambalayaJim »

Vaslo wrote: post #93
JambalayaJim wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agreed. Just about everything within 10 minutes drive is a total fantasy in my experience. Whether you’re in the suburbs driving or walking in the urban centre. The only difference is that walking is much more pleasant. That said, if you expand your time radius to 15 minutes, and allow the use of bikes and/or a good subway system, “just about everything” becomes very realistic.

Not everyone can or wants to ride a bike everywhere. Stop this fallacious thinking. Many people don’t care about and will never care about using bikes, nor should they be forced to. I also have no interest in waiting around for a subway car. It’s nice to just hop into my car and get to my destination (most within 15 minutes of my home) and get back. I don’t have time to wait around or ride a bike in the rain. The ent…

Where in my comment did I prescribe my way of living onto you?

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#107

Post by userbinator »

breuleux wrote: post #102
userbinator wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True freedom includes the freedom to do things others might not like. I happen to like the space and enjoy the noise.[1] So does nearly everyone around me. You can squeeze together in your claustrophobic factory-farm cities if you like, but leave those who don't out of it. [1] I highly recommend taking a ride in a 70s "land yacht" with a mildly tuned engine sometime. It might change your perception of cars entirely i…

You enjoy the noise of cars rolling next to you when you are dining on a terrace? You like to listen to their sweet lullaby when you are reading on your balcony? That's... interesting, I guess? We are not talking about freedom, we are talking about entitlement. You are not entitled to free parking on the side of streets, nor to be able to drive on every single street, nor to do so at a high speed, nor to be as noisy…

Yes I like the sound of cars, especially American ones from an era when it was actually a great country and the majority of the population wasn't being squeezed out of owning things by the government and rich elites.

You are not "entitled" to walk or bike either.

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking (2005)

#108

Post by dalke »

coffeedan wrote: post #73
dalke wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has anyone moved from a semi-dense area where just about anything was within a 10 minute drive, to a situation where they didn't use a car and still lived a decent efficient life? I used to live in Sante Fe, New Mexico in the US. The city was founded in 1610. The city core for the first 300 years was of course walkable, but the last grocery store downtown closed around 2000 so it's a mile walk to the nearest store…

>>> biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe Genuinely curious, what makes biking not an option in Santa Fe?

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I was away on a trip.

When I was there there was essentially no dedicated bike paths. You had to ride on the street, with not even a bike lane. It's a bit better now, with a bike path next to the RailRunner line.

There is a lot of gravel in town, with places where the gravel gets on the side of the road where people park, as when a dirt road or dirt driveway comes onto the road.

In my first few months of living in Santa Fe, I got driving off the road by someone cutting in front of me.

Checking now, it's gotten better. I lived around 601 28 W San Mateo Rd, Santa Fe, NM 87505, USA and worked 309 Johnson St, Santa Fe, NM 87501, USA (the apartments have gone condo, and the company I worked for has long since gone bust).

Nowdays I would be able to take the rail trail to the Railyard, but then either bike with traffic or on the sidewalk the rest of the way.

Or I could bike along some busy streets, like take a bike lane on Galisteo into the center of town.

Neither are that appealing.

I certainly know people did bike there, but that does not mean I felt comfortable doing so, even after 10 years of often using a bike for errands in Tallahassee, FL, Urbana/Champaign, IL, and Mountain View, CA.

Post reply on HN