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A basic guide to using Asian names

asiamediacentre.org.nz

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Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#171

Post by kortex »

meepmorp wrote: post #150
sbehere wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think certain sounds are hard for Western speakers to pronounce, while others are easy. Specifically, Hindi (and many other Sanskrit-derived languages) distinguish between some sounds (which have correspondingly different characters in the written script) that are often indistinguishable to Western ears. And if you can't hear the difference, you are unlikely to be able to say it right. These sounds typically come i…

> For example, there are 4 "T" sounds in Hindi: त थ ट ठ. Out of curiosity, are these distinguished as alveolar vs retroflex and aspirated vs non-aspirated?

Tldr yes. Not a Hindustani speaker but general linguistics nerd. No idea if HN can handle the IPA modifiers

- त - /t̪ə/ - voiceless dental plosive

- थ - /t̪ʰə/ - aspirated voiceless dental plosive

- ट - /ʈə/ - Voiceless retroflex plosive

- ठ - /ʈʰə/ - aspirated Voiceless retroflex plosive

t̪ - t with square bracket below is the dental plosive

ʰ - superscript h is the aspirations indicator

So there are three issues for English speakers:

A minor issue: English uses apical plosive /t/ for "t" , while Hindi and related use dental plosive /t̪/. This is a small difference in tongue placement. But these sound similar enough. The bigger issue is English lacks a retroflex plosive (tongue curls), and aspiration is non-phonemic (does not carry a meaningful distinction). English speakers typically aspirate leading plosives and don't aspirate in the middle of words. It's not that native English speakers "can't" hear a difference, it's just way more subtle and likely to be missed unless specifically listening for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_and_alveola...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_retroflex_plosive

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#172

Post by paulddraper »

madmax96 wrote: post #147

The whole situation is really confusing. Some people already ``adjust'' their names for a Western audience, and others don't. So, given the of a Japanese person, I don't know if is the family name or given name. Some people already make the adjustment so that Westerners get it right, some don't. I don't care either way -- I'd just prefer things be consistent so that when I recognize a Japanese name I can call them by…

FWIW, family name is almost one syllable (Li, Yang, Wu, etc.)

Though that only helps a little because loads of given names are also one syllable.

Fun Fact: 300,000 people have the name "Zhang Wei" [1]

[1] https://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-01/20/c_138721082.htm

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#173

Post by kortex »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #109
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

My friend, in America, is named Alok. When he started school the teacher said “That’s not a name, in my class your name is Alex.” You know that not everyone is relating to you with good intentions, right? And that their convenience isn’t the most important thing in the world? How far does your magnanimity extend? Can people just say “hey you, shithead” and you think that shouldn’t affect the interaction?

I think there is a huge difference between mapping over to easier phonetics/phonotactics or common names in the native language, and "hey shithead". The attitude isn't great, but Alok->Alex checks out.

In Italy I'd be Michele, in Japan, I'd be Maikeru/マイケル, in Ukraine I'd probably be Mykhaylo/Михайло.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#174

Post by kortex »

mynameisamis wrote: post #107

I'm from Europe but lived in Singapore for 10 years and worked with people from all over. There were a lot of names that surprised me, like the occasional man with a female name. One was named Wendy, the other one I forgot. I think he was from the Philippines, or maybe Malaysia. Many Asian languages don't have male/female names, so when the parents want to pick a western name for their newborn they don't always consi…

> so instead they pick two names and combine them, or one name and rearrange the letters. So you get folks named Danold, Stevid and so on

This is also a great tip for generating names in fantasy or sci-fi settings.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#175

Post by kortex »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #65

This seems like the perfect place to ask. I was recently watching an international sporting event. I watched games from South Korea and Japan, and with both countries I couldn't figure out if the Latin script name on their backs was their family name or given name. With South Korea I guessed it was their given name, someone had either Park or Moon as a name but a different name on their back. But with Japan I couldn'…

As a really rough rule of thumb, in both Japanese and South Korean cultures, it would be fairly improper to address or refer to a "stranger" or any non-close-friend [1] by their given name. A jersey nameplate would absolutely constitute a stranger/formal context, so family name would be expected here. Even if you did not know that pretty universally, jersey nameplates/tags (and nameplates writ large) with only one name will be the family name.

1 - "stranger/non-close-friend" here means someone who you aren't already a) quite familiar with and b) in the age bracket / position in hierarchy c) in an informal friendly context. Any teacher, boss, employee, acquaintance, professional, etc, it'll be family name. Classmates, close friends, family members will usually use given name (in informal context - code switching).

As an amusing aside, this is a bit of an in-joke in the anime Mushoku Tensei (Jobless Reincarnation), where the main character is often using surnames and the formal or even Keigo register with his rough-and-tumble party mates and they are like "yo why are you so formal?".

But also, Park and Moon are common Korean family names. Because like the near-majority of South Koreans have the Kim surname, you'll often see initials like "H S KIM"

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#176

Post by mcmoor »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

It's becoming kinda like a shibboleth to me. Most people can't spell my name and it's ok but if you can, you earn my favor.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#177

Post by anotheruser13 »

paulddraper wrote: post #163
earthboundkid wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little bit of a complicated issue. On the one hand, my great-grandfather gave up using a patronym to be an American. That’s a totally normal thing, and it’s weird to complain about it. In Japan, they were often confused about which of my names was personal and which was for my family, and they never quite figured out the deal with my middle name / initial. Cultures are different, and you can’t expect everyone…

> Hindi is spelled phonetically in English Bold of you to say it's possible to "spell phonetically in English"

The Japanese language enters and says, "Hold my beer."

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#178

Post by anotheruser13 »

madmax96 wrote: post #147

The whole situation is really confusing. Some people already ``adjust'' their names for a Western audience, and others don't. So, given the of a Japanese person, I don't know if is the family name or given name. Some people already make the adjustment so that Westerners get it right, some don't. I don't care either way -- I'd just prefer things be consistent so that when I recognize a Japanese name I can call them by…

You could look up the n most common Japanese family names (myoji ,名字). You probably would get a list like Yamaha, Suzuki, Watanabe, Tanaka, etc. Of course, this wouldn't cover every case, but it might help. 頑張ってください！

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#179

Post by anotheruser13 »

martyvis wrote: post #48
SanjayMehta wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Ch.” could be short for “Choudhary,” a title. Or for “Chiranjeevi,” usually used on wedding cards before the groom’s name.

In early 20th century Australia some common names were abbreviated rather than initialled, often seen on business names. For instance George was Geo. and Charles was Chas.

Reminds me of the late US menswear store, Jos. A Banks. My dad used to buy his work clothes there.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#180

Post by anotheruser13 »

keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

I wouldn't care for that. I'm tired of being "ma'amed" to death.

I'm a native Chicagoan, currently living in Texas. The US southern of calling one's (elders?) Miss /Mr confuses me, since I don't know the conventions....

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