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Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

lichess.org

131–140 of 211 posts

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#131
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess players are some of the saltiest people on Earth, people can get really mean in chat. Also cheaters galore

The saltiness is much, much less than in some games (shooters, mobas) but a portion of every playerbase thinks they are the worst one even if they are not.

Extremely good point, I don't really game outside of online chess so I can't say that I have a very wide sample pool. TBH the chat I used to see when my brother was playing League blew any chess experience I've had out of the water. I'd almost use a word beyond "salty" for that

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#132
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is all kinds of player bad behavior that needs to be manually verified - cheating is the obvious one, but there's also smurfing, excessive sandbagging, clock abuse (e.g. letting your clock tick down to zero in a loss, just to be annoying).

What's smurfing and sandbagging? EDIT: I ask because I was once accused of smurfing (I'm only a casual player) in the chat during the endgame.

Smurfing is when you disguise yourself as a noob on an alternate account when you are really more skilled.

Sandbagging is related: deliberately losing to play people with lower ratings.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#133

> These don't benefit us, the website users, in any way Except for, you know, allowing those websites to exist in the first place? Ads and data are nothing but a form of payment, the gold or salt of the internet age. The alternative to ads isn't no ads, it's paywalls and subscriptions. If ads didn't exist or weren't as accurate as they can be with invasive tracking, we'd have far less content out there, and most of t…

This is clearly not true; Wikipedia isn't ad supported and is incredibly successful and prolific. You can use educational tools like WolframAlpha freely and pay (using a normal subscription model) for its more advanced features, no advertising required. KhanAcademy is completely free (yes I know they host many of their videos on YouTube; that's a minority of the content on KA these days and I suspect would be a relat…

Wikipedia has a somewhat unique architecture in that it's mostly text and most of that text can be cached. This is also true about blogs and sites like HN and Stackoverflow, but not social media sites, search engines, messaging services, video and image hosting sites etc.

Most Wikipedia visitors use an ad-supported search engine to find articles. All that Wikipedia itself needs to do is to find the URL in their cache and send the pre-rendered HTML page. For many requests, there are no SQL queries to execute and there's no PHP Wikimedia code to run, it's just finding some HTML in a glorified key-value store. There's relatively little code to run and relatively little bandwidth required, so the cost-per-user isn't that high. There's also very little technical innovation, the core problem has been solved and the community is just adding more content. Same goes for HN and Stackoverflow.

Not all websites can operate that way. Search engines need lots of compute for indexing and search, and lots of developers to fight SEO spam. Not all searches can even be cached, "nearby Sushi restaurants" needs to return results based on your location etc. Social media websites spend a lot of money on moderation, and all their users are logged in, giving them far fewer opportunities for caching. Pushing a Taylor Swift tweet to all her followers in almost real time is definitely no small feat. Messaging apps need to deal with a lot of push notifications and a much higher proportion of writes to reads (when compared to Wikipedia), also moderation, fighting bots etc. Video and image hosting websites need much more bandwidth and storage (and possibly compute for transcoding), and those aren't free.

The non-profit, no ads, free-for-all model just doesn't work that well for this kind of platforms.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#134
post #48

> It's important to note that blocking ads is NOT theft. Don't fall for this creepy idea, which is the criminalisation of the inalienable right to privacy. This is something I've never actually focused on but it's wild the amount of people I've installed AdBlock and ublock for who think it's something nefarious.

Ads and targeted ads aren’t the same thing, so idk if I agree that ad blocking is per se a privacy right. Practically, of course, it’s a different story.

Untargeted ads are still a security nightmare. Why would I permit loading and executing scripts / resources from arbitrary domains? Ublock is layer 0 defense against malware and viruses.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Now, I get that you're probably coming at this from "But hosting costs money and advertising is a way to recuperate the cost, so visiting the site but blocking ads is leeching bandwidth from the host without providing value back in the form of ad revenue". But this doesn't hold up. All the cards are held by the content provider. If they -actually- have a problem with this, they have ways to stop it. 1. A server…

One can enter physically a theater and watch a movie without paying quote often. Depending on the timing and staff you may not be confronted for a long time or at all. Does that mean theaters don't really care or obligate consumers to pay?

There is nuance because the behavior around physical spaces is well established by law and social norm. This is absolutely not true for the internet, as evidenced by this very debate.

If you will indulge the hypothetical, and we step back from the established social norms (people know you are expected to pay), who is responsible for making sure customers understand the need to pay? The theater. If the theater doesn't secure their doors and doesn't say anywhere "you must pay to enter," then it's a completely reasonable behavior for someone to enter and watch until they are asked to leave or pay. If they refuse to leave, they're trespassing. If they are told to pay before entering and they sneak in, this is clearly trespassing.

But this is not really the same thing as online advertising. Online advertising is more like, you ask them to deliver a DVD to your house, and the agreement is "we'll deliver the DVD if you also let us place a camera and microphone in your home to watch your reaction to the DVD." Then you allow the DVD in but refuse entry to the spy gear. It would be very problematic to try and force people to accept the spy gear, or prevent them from denying entry to the spy gear. It would lead to laws purposefully designed to deny people privacy and control over their own homes. A much better solution would be for the company to just not allow you to take the DVD unless you also take the spy gear and to create laws around that behavior if necessary.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#136
post #48

> It's important to note that blocking ads is NOT theft. Don't fall for this creepy idea, which is the criminalisation of the inalienable right to privacy. This is something I've never actually focused on but it's wild the amount of people I've installed AdBlock and ublock for who think it's something nefarious.

[flagged]

Not more unethical than making money off of manipulating people, spreading malware and viruses, etc.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#138
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very high salary in a lot of places, perhaps the developers don't feel the need to get 100k+/year...? .-.

That’s.. one way to look at it. Should read “perhaps the company doesn’t feel the need to give developers 100k+/year”.

Well, "the company" in that case is the "main programmer" being paid.

And then one has to consider value of social security provided when comparing with other countries. Health insurance, retirement funds, ...

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter whether it's automatic?

Because if you have to manually notice, recognize, then look away, then arguably you've already paid with your attention. If someone or something is doing it for you (and others) automatically then it eliminates the 'payment' and undermines producers ability to produce.

For the record, a lot of ads in newspapers are in separate inserts which easily be separated and tossed out. Grocery store bundles for example.

Re: Lichess: Block Ads and Trackers

#140

Interesting to contrast this with their main competitor at Chess.com, which uses AdSense and tracks users with googletagmanager.com, sentry.io, kaxsdc.com, facebook-sdk, and other third-party data sources. uBlock is cutting off lichess.org's Fastly CDN resources without loss of function, but is otherwise silent. Conversely, uBlock, Ghostery, and PrivacyBadger light up my browser like a Christmas tree when I visit Che…

I’m pretty curious about chess.com’s finances. I wonder how much they’re making from premium accounts vs ads. Can’t seem to find much online since they’re private.
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