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I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

truthonthestreets.substack.com

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Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#71

Post by pandaman »

davidw wrote: post #58
shuntress wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know most people move somewhere cheaper when they can't afford to live somewhere, right? This is not about people being priced out of certain markets. This is about the people who are too deep in crisis to handle finding a cheaper place to live.

You're correct that many people do move - that's why California lost a congressional seat. But there are plenty that get 'caught out' - they don't have the cash to move somewhere far away with no friends or family or a job lined up. The statistics are pretty clear that, at a high level, it is about housing prices. That's why California has more homelessness than Detroit despite the latter being mired in poverty. That…

If statistics had been as clear as you claim them to be then we'd see enormous concentration of homeless in Aspen, Hamptons, Marta's Vineyard, Beverly Hills etc.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#72

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

davidw wrote: post #63
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're absolutely right. It's why there are equal numbers of homeless people in Minneapolis and Los Angeles in December.

The big statistic is right there at the beginning of the article I shared: > The overwhelming majority of homeless people surveyed were locals, not migrants from far away: 90 percent lost their last housing in California, and 75 percent lost it in the same county where they were experiencing homelessness. Of the 10 percent who came from elsewhere, 30 percent were born in California. Most of the others had familial or…

Which is about what you'd expect, given that there isn't a very tempting reason to hitchhike all the way from Rhode Island currently.

If you'll check my original comment, I suggested that this occurs only in those magical places where they have already solved homelessness, as if with a magic wand. Not exactly anyone's description of San Francisco at the moment.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#73

Post by jupp0r »

edgyquant wrote: post #28
jupp0r wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of capitalist societies without any homeless. Maybe it's the inadequate social safety net after all.

What societies currently have zero homeless? Looking at western nations I can’t find a single country “without homelessness.”

Singapore has very few homeless people. Most countries in Europe have almost no homeless population. It's not zero, but it's low enough that it is not a big problem compared to the US.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#74

Post by major505 »

Theres a great book in portuguese about about it called "Mafia dos Mendigos - como caridade aumenta a miséria" translate to somethinh likeThe Beggars mafia.

Its a book about a evangelic priest who lived in the streets among beggars for a year, and through observations came to write this a book about how non-goverment organizations make money exploiting the misery of this people.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#75

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

shuntress wrote: post #59
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #4

As I've said before, there is a counter-intuitive meta-problem with homelessness. Fixing homelessness doesn't require love, or honesty, or any other virtue. Like most problems, it requires money. But no matter how much money is allocated to fix the problem of homelessness, fixing it attracts more homeless. Their feet aren't nailed to the ground on the other side of the continent... if they hear of a magical place tha…

"Caravan of 'Undesirables'" scare tactic. Get real.

Is that how you read my comment?

I think I'm safe in saying that it's a documented fact that however many homeless there are in your city, there are more elsewhere. I feel confident in the assumption that if homeless people learn that somewhere they currently aren't the ex-homeless now don't have to live in gutters, and all they have to do is somehow go there... they'll go there. This isn't a scare tactic, it's a reality.

And it means that there is no budget large enough to solve homelessness in any arbitrary city, unless they budget to solve it for the entirety of the North American mainland.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#76

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #16
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #4

As I've said before, there is a counter-intuitive meta-problem with homelessness. Fixing homelessness doesn't require love, or honesty, or any other virtue. Like most problems, it requires money. But no matter how much money is allocated to fix the problem of homelessness, fixing it attracts more homeless. Their feet aren't nailed to the ground on the other side of the continent... if they hear of a magical place tha…

The idea of homeless people as rootless resource consumers free and willing to migrate any distance for services is completely alien to the actual experiences and issues. Almost half of homeless people have jobs . The "street homeless" are the visible tip of the iceberg but not representative. And even more importantly, almost all homeless people have family and friends, churches, AA meetings, coffee shops where they…

> Surely people do move only for better access to services but I have never seen numbers on how many.

First, there would need to be "better services" significantly better for that to be worth the trouble.

Which, again, I explained pretty clearly in the first comment. I plainly say "this is why no one does better services". Did you miss that part?

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#77

Post by giraffe_lady »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #76
giraffe_lady wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of homeless people as rootless resource consumers free and willing to migrate any distance for services is completely alien to the actual experiences and issues. Almost half of homeless people have jobs . The "street homeless" are the visible tip of the iceberg but not representative. And even more importantly, almost all homeless people have family and friends, churches, AA meetings, coffee shops where they…

> Surely people do move only for better access to services but I have never seen numbers on how many. First, there would need to be "better services" significantly better for that to be worth the trouble. Which, again, I explained pretty clearly in the first comment. I plainly say "this is why no one does better services". Did you miss that part?

No I didn't miss it at all, I simply do not think that's the reason and you didn't do anything to persuade me.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#78

Post by pasttense01 »

solardev wrote: post #15

How have other societies and cultures dealt with homelessness? Is this an American epidemic, or is it happening elsewhere too?

The rich Western European countries have large safety nets--unlike the U.S. which has a lot of holes in its uncoordinated safety net system.

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#79

Post by mitchbob »

jppope wrote: post #31
Ajay-p wrote: post #19

I don't agree with this author at all. Housing First has proven to be very successful when implemented on the local and state level.[0] This author seems to be taking a strange economic view that just because it has worked doesn't it mean it will continue to work, or work on a national level. I hate to say it but he sounds very bitter and thinks this is just throwing good money after bad. IMO if it gets people off th…

Can you provide any data on California? It may just be the skeptic in me but using Utah, with its large Mormon population and climate, feels like an exception not a rule. I'm aware that New York City has done some good work, but that predates Housing First if I'm not mistaken.

I'm currently reading Jennifer Egan's excellent article in last week's New Yorker magazine about a supportive-housing facility in New York City [1], and its depiction of their Housing First approach is one of the most encouraging things I've ever read about addressing homelessness. Meet people where they are, address their most basic needs, and their lives become much, much better. If it can work in NYC with all its challenges, I think it can work anywhere.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from... (archived: https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-175108/https://www.newyorker.c... )

Re: I call it the Homeless Industrial Complex

#80

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #77
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely people do move only for better access to services but I have never seen numbers on how many. First, there would need to be "better services" significantly better for that to be worth the trouble. Which, again, I explained pretty clearly in the first comment. I plainly say "this is why no one does better services". Did you miss that part?

No I didn't miss it at all, I simply do not think that's the reason and you didn't do anything to persuade me.

So you're just irrational. Good to know.

This isn't a criminal trial closing argument. I'm not trying to persuade you of anything, I'm just laying out the mechanism. Good luck with the sidewalk shitters in SF.

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