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We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

ifixit.com

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Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#61

Post by sneeze-slayer »

tumult wrote: post #34
falsenapkin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such an ignore button would allow theft to continue and would allow users to make poor security decisions. I agree that something needs to happen to enable easier or maybe more privacy focused 3rd party repairs but I also appreciate my device being less of a target.

What? How is someone who snatched your phone out of your hand and ran away going to know your password and authentication information needed to authorize a parts replacement?

I think the point is that an unsuspecting buyer of, e.g. a screen replacement, could end up going to a shady repair shop that uses stolen parts, sees the message once, clicks "OK", and moves on. The reasoning being that this scenario would cause some demand for black market parts.

The suggestion from OP whereby the seller of a used phone logs in and "unpairs" the parts could avoid this, unless a robber forces you to do it under duress.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#62

Post by mrweasel »

hedora wrote: post #39
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

There is also another issue why Apple is restricting "part harvesting": theft. iCloud locks or Samsung's KNOX lock entered the field because the manufacturers were pretty pissed that customers using their devices in public became a target for "enterprising" robbers who'd factory-wipe the devices and flip them to a pawn shop or second-hand store in a matter of half an hour. When people are afraid to use your products…

It seems pretty easy to implement the "unpair" functionality you ask for. If "Find My iPhone" (the anti-theft subsystem) is disabled, then the serial numbers for all the parts could be sent to an Apple database, and/or the components could have a "ready to be re-used" bit set that caused them to factory reset themselves if the phone they're plugged into changes (so any state on the re-used thing wouldn't somehow leak…

That does sound like a pretty good solution, if it can be done for a broken phone. The major issue I see is that refurbish companies are already complaining about "bricked" MacBooks, because nobody actually cared enough to ensure that those laptops where reset before being sold. I don't see the same industry being capable of guiding users through resetting permissions for spare parts.

A better solutions is to take the direction FairPhone has chosen and make the things that break user-serviceable and offer the parts for sale on Apples own website. If the issue is that phones are being stolen and sold for parts, just flood the market with cheap parts. The new iPhones are absolutely massive, so I'm not buying that you can't make them a bit thicker and allow a user to take them apart. How many people use their phone without a cover anyway?

If Apple is serious about being more environmentally friendly, then make a user serviceable phone. Not replacing your phone because fixing it is either impossible or impossibly expensive is going to have a much bigger impact than buying carbon credits for people who charge their watch. My best guess is that Apple is so obsessed with just-in-time production and so hostile to the idea of stocking parts, that they can even see the potential benefits.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#63

Post by abtinf »

MostlyStable wrote: post #46
sjkna wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you apply that argument to everything that gets stolen you will see it doesn't stand on its own.

Which things other than phones are primarily stolen specifically to be parted out (and...to be perfectly honest I'm not sure I buy that it's even that big a thing in phones)? And which companies have made the problem worse by artificially restricting part supplies?

Cars. And they have a massive OEM and aftermarket parts supply chain.

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cars-most-likely-...

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#64

Post by sneeze-slayer »

jchw wrote: post #15
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

There is also another issue why Apple is restricting "part harvesting": theft. iCloud locks or Samsung's KNOX lock entered the field because the manufacturers were pretty pissed that customers using their devices in public became a target for "enterprising" robbers who'd factory-wipe the devices and flip them to a pawn shop or second-hand store in a matter of half an hour. When people are afraid to use your products…

I do not accept this as a reasonable answer. I've lived in not even very good areas, with very lax physical security (often not locking my car) and have never had this issue, ever. Nobody has ever stolen my phone. Not in downtown Detroit, not in not-downtown-Detroit, not in SF, not in Chicago. If crime really is this bad, it's not an Apple or Samsung problem. It's a societal problem that extremely badly needs to be a…

It's a big world. Haven't you seen videos of phones getting stolen out of peoples hands from thieves on scooters in places like Brazil? Or the millions of tourists in Spain and Italy whose cell phones would become major targets.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#65

Post by adesanmi »

orwin wrote: post #59
abtinf wrote: post #43

This is another dishonest post by Kyle and iFixit. The failure to mention a critical a reason for pairing—theft prevention—is enough to dismiss the entire piece as hopelessly biased. Just a few years ago, every major news source had an article every other week sounding the alarms about the smartphone theft problem. They would universally blame the phone manufacturers for not doing more.

So, abandonning liberties for a bit of security then.

It’s an important conversation to have. My mums phone got stolen with Find My active. The police refused to do anything about it, they tried to phish her details, failed and I followed it to Shenzen.

I’m not saying these changes would prevent occurrences, but if they couldn’t even strip parts from a phone, it makes it a less enticing target for thieves.

I do think that a version of the iPhone without these restrictions should be available for purchase for customers who know that’s exactly what they want, not this convoluted system.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#66

Post by MostlyStable »

sjkna wrote: post #54
MostlyStable wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which things other than phones are primarily stolen specifically to be parted out (and...to be perfectly honest I'm not sure I buy that it's even that big a thing in phones)? And which companies have made the problem worse by artificially restricting part supplies?

I was talking about stealing in general, but... vehicles? Also I don't know of any major phone manufacturer that sells genuine parts besides Apple.

If you were taking about theft in general, then I don't even know what point you were trying to make.

And yes, other companies selling fewer official parts (although I've never been unable to get screens, batteries, or replacement charging parts for my non-apple phones) is bad, and I already criticize companies that fail to make parts available. When they start doing part pairing, I will criticize them for it to. The fact that this behavior is bad has nothing to do with it being Apple. Not making parts easy to get: bad. Making replacement parts not viable without input from manufacturer: also bad.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#67

Post by MostlyStable »

abtinf wrote: post #63
MostlyStable wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which things other than phones are primarily stolen specifically to be parted out (and...to be perfectly honest I'm not sure I buy that it's even that big a thing in phones)? And which companies have made the problem worse by artificially restricting part supplies?

Cars. And they have a massive OEM and aftermarket parts supply chain. https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/cars-most-likely-...

Cars being stolen to chop shops is a thing, I am extremely skeptical that it's the primary reason cars are stolen.\

-edit- Yeah even according to your source, a pretty tiny minority appear to be stolen for parts. Probably because, as you point out, parts are so easy and relatively cheap to get, except for inherently valuable parts like catalytic converters. And guess what? If people start stealing iPhones to harvest the gold/rare metals, parts pairing is not going to fix that.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#68

Post by abtinf »

orwin wrote: post #59
abtinf wrote: post #43

This is another dishonest post by Kyle and iFixit. The failure to mention a critical a reason for pairing—theft prevention—is enough to dismiss the entire piece as hopelessly biased. Just a few years ago, every major news source had an article every other week sounding the alarms about the smartphone theft problem. They would universally blame the phone manufacturers for not doing more.

So, abandonning liberties for a bit of security then.

The right-to-repair crowd are the ones trying to use guns to prevent me from buying the devices I want to buy.

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#69

Post by M4v3R »

adesanmi wrote: post #57

When people stop robbing phones for them to end up in Shenzen and stripped for parts, this will stop. This is a deterrent to make stealing iPhones less convenient and I’m all for it. People already have to try to phish people’s iCloud details after stealing their devices to resell, costing them time and money and making it more annoying to try and steal. I do think people who want to repair their phone should have ac…

I’ve heard that take many times, but is there any actual data to back this claim? I mean think about it - your average thief is not the kind of person that will know what part setialization is or how to tell iPhone models apart to know which ones to steal. They steal your purse, bag or just anything and sight and only then deal with the loot, discarding what’s useless. I would be very surprised if serializing the battery or screen is putting any significant dent in the number of stolen iPhones worldwide.

Apple has already created a pretty good deterrent to prevent iPhone theft - the Find My iPhone system. It’s better because it’s actually useful to the user and works even if you turn the phone off. The way I see it there’s absolutely no need to serialize the parts as an additional measure to prevent theft (given also what I said in the first paragraph)

Re: We are retroactively dropping the iPhone’s repairability score

#70

Post by BoorishBears »

tumult wrote: post #34
falsenapkin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such an ignore button would allow theft to continue and would allow users to make poor security decisions. I agree that something needs to happen to enable easier or maybe more privacy focused 3rd party repairs but I also appreciate my device being less of a target.

What? How is someone who snatched your phone out of your hand and ran away going to know your password and authentication information needed to authorize a parts replacement?

You should search what happens when these phones are stolen with Apple's lock on them.

It's almost always the same play book:

- moves to some US address nearby

- turns off for days

- shows up in Shenzhen or Guangzhou

Usually from there are a few attempts to phish the owner with fake iCloud alerts (and sometimes outright threats) before they strip it for parts.

To be clear it's not like the phone theft itself is part of some concerted effort by Chinese actors: there are only so many places where the tools and skills to strip down, repackage, and resell something as specific as an iPhone speaker unit are so common

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