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I digitalized Berlin's registration form

nicolasbouliane.com

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Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#221

Post by BurningPenguin »

nforgerit wrote: post #102
2716057 wrote: post #70

No, no, it's all wrong. Here's how we digitize our administration in Germany the proper, Germanic way: A fixed sum for digitization is allocated and the local government publicly advertises a project. A bureaucrat higher up the foodchain has a friend/cousin/former colleague who runs an IT service business side gig. Guess who will win the contract. The friend/cousin/former colleague starts building by outsourcing the…

German here. I'll have to dissent on the buddy-business part. That's not how Germany works. It's the opposite, which turns out to be even worse: As a bureaucrat that wants to solve a specific problem, you form a project and are required to make a public submission. Those submissions have to adhere to very formal predefined legal standards (in order to omit corruption) which make them incredibly time-consuming paperwo…

Maybe in the North, but in Bavaria it's the "good buddy" scenario.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#222

Post by moooo99 »

BucketsMcG wrote: post #184
ido wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are online gov services still so much better in the uk then in Germany?

1) Most of uk.gov is actually designed and built in-house. 2) Germany, as a nation, got to about 1991 and collectively decided "This is nice, let's keep it like this". Even the most technologically progressive regions of Germany still think it's 1997. Elsewhere, it's like the wall never came down.

Very cynical but it feels very accurate

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#223

Post by alexdbird »

Escapado wrote: post #147
mejutoco wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not disagree that sometimes German bureaucracy is not the most efficient. But. I have used Elster and, while it is true it looks old and overly complicated, it actually works great. You get _a lot_ of very useful warnings about fields that cannot be 0 or must at least be x, based on some other distant field. You can save previous forms and start from them (for recurrent things like VAT quarterly declaration). Yo…

Very valid points. But I would argue that guiding the user through a set of basal questions to exclude a bunch of fields and pages would do wonders for the whole thing. I get by alright but most of my friends and family find it utterly complicated and have to consult a tax advisor because they don't even know which fields are even relevant to them and the explanations in them often leave them with more questions than…

> guiding the user through a set of basal questions to exclude a bunch of fields and pages

The UK tax return (AKA Self-Assessment) follows this pattern and it definitely makes it better. It still lacks clear explanations of every field though.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#224

Post by wdb »

Bissness wrote: post #34

Bravo! Bürgerämter are most of the time a fucking joke. My registration in Berlin took months after I already moved there, the waiting times are just that long, and this seems to apply to many cities. I live in another city now, and my ID card has been expired for months now (which, legally, is a misdemeanor). There isn't a single free appointment anywhere, citywide. You can attempt to go personally there in the earl…

Hah, yeah, renewing ID card or passports needs to be planned well ahead. I think my government advices few months ahead of expiring.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#227

Post by wdb »

lippihom wrote: post #212

My German passport expired a few years ago and in Berlin the wait time to get a new one was months. Flew to Boston for work (on my American passport), and had the German embassy there do it... in 48 hours. Berlin is peak-level incompetent.

Wow that's quick! I am impressed you were able to get an appointment at the embassy. Embassy is worse than the local city council back home.

My country they say new ID card or passport within four weeks but never happened.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#228

Post by jupp0r »

danjac wrote: post #208
Jean-Philipe wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually had to work with two German government agencies, digitalizing parts of their work flow and it was surprisingly pleasant. The gov employees were super happy I saved them a lot of work and made their daily lives easier. My clients (small software shops) got to set up and maintain the server for them. There was some bureaucracy hurdles my clients had to tackle, but no show stoppers. I think the biggest proble…

Maybe the best way is to avoid these consultancies altogether and create a government digital agency (whether at local or national level). Motivated and well-trained civil servants familiar with the bureaucracy and terminology who can maintain and improve services in the long term. The UK .gov project seems to point the way.

This is largely impossible in Germany due to government pay rates being a fraction of what a competent person would earn in industry. There is very little flexibility in this due to equality principles. Sports is an exception, so they could fix it if they wanted to.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#230

Post by jupp0r »

mejutoco wrote: post #109
Escapado wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone thinking this is satire: It's suprisingly close to the truth. We have Elster for electronically submitting taxes. Apparently the Elster Project started in 1996. And all it is, is a digital version of the manual tax forms. It's entirely stupid. When I file my taxes I still have to leave out 12 random pages (instead of Elster figuring out that I don't need to file them and simply not show them to me). And la…

I do not disagree that sometimes German bureaucracy is not the most efficient. But. I have used Elster and, while it is true it looks old and overly complicated, it actually works great. You get _a lot_ of very useful warnings about fields that cannot be 0 or must at least be x, based on some other distant field. You can save previous forms and start from them (for recurrent things like VAT quarterly declaration). Yo…

Have you ever done taxes in another country? US taxes are not known to be super easy but the sheer ease of filing them compared to filing German taxes completely blew my mind.
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