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Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

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Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#131

Post by ovih »

cookiengineer wrote: post #103

I can recommend reading about the reforestation laws in Germany. Why? Germany was running out of forests to harvest around 1400, and the oldest law that is still in effect is from 1442 (Forstordnung of the Bistum Speyer) . All forests in Germany are artificially created, and there are a lot of things involved to make this happen. We have rain plans that limit the amount of how much water farmers are allowed to use wh…

Fascinating context, thank you for sharing!

Some other countries whose history has something to say about reforestation/afforestation: Australia, South Korea, UK

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#132

Post by meerita »

As a reflection of my passion for plants, every time I trek through a forest, I gather seeds and nurture sprouts from them, replanting them each year. Last year, I successfully planted 25 trees, and over the course of four years, I've planted approximately 100. This year, in the upcoming spring, I aspire to plant 50 more.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#133

Post by myshpa »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #105
taway_6PplYu5 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I've heard that the best ecological and economic outcome is to manage an old growth forest and log it selectively using patterns that mimic tree loss from non-human activity. Maximizing ecological advantage also maximizes economic advantage, even in the short-medium term.

> I've heard that the best ecological and economic outcome is to manage an old growth forest and log it selectively using patterns that mimic tree loss from non-human activity I don't see how this is supposed to be accomplished. For that concept to make any sense, you'd need to prevent the tree loss from non-human activity, which is all but impossible to do. If you can't do that, then the existing pattern of loss alr…

> I don't see how this is supposed to be accomplished

Peter Wohlleben has written about this approach. The Menominee tribe also practices a similar method; they only log sick or weak trees. However, because these are from old growth forests, the wood quality is superior to that of trees from monoculture forests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wohlleben

https://e360.yale.edu/features/menominee-forest-management-l...

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#134

Post by RGamma »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #115
RGamma wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's dangerously simplistic, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_stability and related topics for a start.

Ecological stability refers to a concept that is never realized. You can pretend it exists by ignoring the variation that you feel is unimportant. Over time, that variation will make its way into the areas that you thought were stable.

The reason I wrote my remark is the relatively recent uptick in "in nature everything always changed regardless of whether we exist, therefore we're absolved from everything that's happening with the biosphere"-style arguments.

Obviously on the face of it the premise is true, but time scales, operationalisation and causes/responsibilities matter critically there.

Islands of stability exist (like our homeostatic bodies, species that have survived for millions of years, old growth forests, etc) in nature. But whether one cares about (not unnecessarily, prematurely ending) any of this is a very different matter.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#135

Post by taylorius »

dagmx wrote: post #110
taylorius wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense meant at all to your brother, it sounds like an interesting investigation. That said, the answer to these sorts of eco-questions always seems to be that the way nature has worked for millions of years is actually the best way (for loads of reasons we didn't know) - and if we mess with it too much, there will be some problems. This just seems kind of inevitable though. If nature's way didn't work, it wouldn…

Your comment bothers me because it is based on very shaky premises. Nature doesn’t work in the most optimal way, so it’s not always best to replicate it. Tons of things happen in nature that may wipe out important ecosystems. I suppose one could argue that at a long enough time scale it will even out but that time scale can be millennia. In the meantime, nature can wreak tons of havoc. Nature (and by that I mean ecos…

"but that time scale can be millennia. In the meantime, nature can wreak tons of havoc."

For sure - I suppose I'm questioning humans' ability to mitigate such havoc without causing a load of unintended consequences.

"Nature (and by that I mean ecosystems because nature is a vague) also doesn’t behave in necessarily intuitive or easily observable ways either. What might seem “obvious” at first can be very wrong."

I think I was saying a very similar thing, actually. I certainly agree with you on that.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#136

Post by thaumasiotes »

RGamma wrote: post #134
thaumasiotes wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ecological stability refers to a concept that is never realized. You can pretend it exists by ignoring the variation that you feel is unimportant. Over time, that variation will make its way into the areas that you thought were stable.

The reason I wrote my remark is the relatively recent uptick in "in nature everything always changed regardless of whether we exist, therefore we're absolved from everything that's happening with the biosphere"-style arguments. Obviously on the face of it the premise is true, but time scales, operationalisation and causes/responsibilities matter critically there. Islands of stability exist (like our homeostatic bodie…

> species that have survived for millions of years

I mean, this is a perfect example of pretending that differences don't exist because you can't see them. There are no such species.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/185

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#137

Post by pjc50 »

asddubs wrote: post #85
atoav wrote: post #71

My brothers MA thesis was about comparing the multiple model forests that have been planted throughout the EUs different climate zones (I didn't even know such a thing existed, bur it makes sense). His focus was looking at resilience against weather, insects etc. and mixed forests fared significantly better throughout all climate zones. As someone from the alps, a thing that should not be forgotten is how important a…

You just have to look at how utterly the Harz pine forests have been completely destroyed by the bark beetle to see what monocultures get you. It's just huge swaths of lands filled with nothing but dead trees

I was not aware of this, and found this very informative https://en.harzinfo.de/pure-nature/the-forest-calls-initiati...

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#138

Post by Biologist123 »

killerpopiller wrote: post #130
Biologist123 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard estimates of 100 million trees dead in the Harz. The common refrain is that this was caused by climate change, but also choice of monoculture was a major contributing factor as the area was historically covered by mixed deciduous. Furthermore, choice of forest type will affect soil moisture retention, so reduced rainfall would have been buffered by better choice of forest type. Loss of those trees was an…

I‘ve heard from a local that in the onset of the bork beetle infestation, it was decided not to intervene (leaving dead trees there). This contributed to the catastrophe. Not sure if this is true.

The non-managed zone is rewilded, so it will be left to regenerate on its own I guess.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#139

Post by Biologist123 »

Xylakant wrote: post #128
Biologist123 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard estimates of 100 million trees dead in the Harz. The common refrain is that this was caused by climate change, but also choice of monoculture was a major contributing factor as the area was historically covered by mixed deciduous. Furthermore, choice of forest type will affect soil moisture retention, so reduced rainfall would have been buffered by better choice of forest type. Loss of those trees was an…

> Loss of those trees was an economic disaster. Given that most of the trees lost were in the nature reserve, the economic impact is somewhat limited.

Is that the case? I didn’t realise. Although as a tourist draw, dead trees are not exactly that appealing. A couple of years ago, I took my three year old daughter up a mountain, and she earnestly said to me: “the once’ler”. We haven’t been back.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#140

Post by RGamma »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #136
RGamma wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I wrote my remark is the relatively recent uptick in "in nature everything always changed regardless of whether we exist, therefore we're absolved from everything that's happening with the biosphere"-style arguments. Obviously on the face of it the premise is true, but time scales, operationalisation and causes/responsibilities matter critically there. Islands of stability exist (like our homeostatic bodie…

> species that have survived for millions of years I mean, this is a perfect example of pretending that differences don't exist because you can't see them. There are no such species. https://www.darklegacycomics.com/185

Wrong taxon, I guess.
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