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German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

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Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#11

Post by hef19898 »

jellicle wrote: post #8

For the political hackers: note that these victories are made possible by Germany's proportional representation system, which guarantees seats in parliaments to any party which gets more than 5% of the popular vote across the state/city/whatever. Thus parties with broad but shallow support do get represented in government. The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post…

Which electoral system is better is another discussion. Both have their flaws, but a pretty good discription of how elections work in Germany.

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#12

Post by hef19898 »

icebraining wrote: post #6

Copyright discussions played little role in the Pirate's successful campaign, however. The party instead focused on issues of social and political reform. Has anyone with real political influence (so, not them for now ;) addresses this issue? I suppose this was relevant before, but with more targeted parties like the Pirates, I think the faults in our election system seem more pronounced. The reality is that a party…

Copyright et al. is just the most well-known program point they. AFAIK the movement started in scandinavia (sweden?) as response to some Pirate Bay issues I forgot about after all the SOPA, ACTA Megaupload stories. Already sorry for being to lacy to look it up right now.

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#13

Post by axx »

You should also keep in mind, that the german pirate party isn't only about copyright stuff.

They're also "the only" party in germany that represents the interests of web-centric citizens. While the conservative parties try to regulate the internet in germany more an more (you know, germany has A LOT of regulations, everywhere) the pirate party is a good alternative.

I'm really happy about this movement, even if they don't land a huge hit after a few years, you can see more younger people getting more interest in politics etc.

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#14

Post by phreeza »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #7
ghost91 wrote: post #4

I'm from germany, but I'm not sure if I would elect them. In last months there were so many chances for them, but they missed every one. For example they organised demonstrations against ACTA, but I never heard anything directly from the pirate party.

There are several press releases about ACTA on piratenpartei.de: http://www.piratenpartei.de/category/pm/

The point is not to just write a press release, it is to get your platform noticed. They missed this opportunity with ACTA and also when our president resigned. Fefe ranted about this in several posts on his blog.

My hunch is they simply lack the political shrewdness required in these matters at the moment, but that also makes them more appealing to me, they are not just playing the same old game (yet).

PS: nice nickname :D

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#15

Post by mhd »

hef19898 wrote: post #5

Anti-copyright group... That and the "everything for free party" are the most common discriptions media and the established parties are trying to pose on the Pirates right now. That and the misinterpretation that an opposition to an attemt to simply block child pornographic sites when you try to access them from germany equals a support of said sites. They are anew party with some, IMHO interessting fresh approaches.…

What could probably work out well for them is the opposite of a "fresh approach". In an interview today, one of the new members of parliament said that he sees the PP as representing classical liberalism, as opposed to the FDP's neo-liberalism. That would be something to unite behind, beyond straight-forward internet themes. But we'll have to see whether it's something the whole party can agree on.

In its ideal form, that's something good about the German electoral system. Due to the fact that traditionally most parts need a coalition to form a government, you can have some kind of "mixin" system, i.e. vote for a party because it adds something valuable to the whole effort, not because you could see them govern totally on their own. Especially if the party isn't tied to one particular big sibling, which more and more seems to be the case now.

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#16

Post by LinaLauneBaer »

phreeza wrote: post #14
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several press releases about ACTA on piratenpartei.de: http://www.piratenpartei.de/category/pm/

The point is not to just write a press release, it is to get your platform noticed. They missed this opportunity with ACTA and also when our president resigned. Fefe ranted about this in several posts on his blog. My hunch is they simply lack the political shrewdness required in these matters at the moment, but that also makes them more appealing to me, they are not just playing the same old game (yet). PS: nice nick…

I do not expect a party to rant like Fefe does. You can't neglect the fact that the position of the pirate party about ACTA is crystal clear: They don't want it to become reality. They wrote press releases, they organized demonstrations and there are ongoing discussions party-wide.

If you think ACTA is a bad idea I see no reason not to vote for the pirate party - they have done more for the anti-ACTA-movement than any other party. It could have been more but this does not make them unelectable...

Thank you - I like your nickname as well. .)

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#17

Post by jellicle »

arethuza wrote: post #9
jellicle wrote: post #8

For the political hackers: note that these victories are made possible by Germany's proportional representation system, which guarantees seats in parliaments to any party which gets more than 5% of the popular vote across the state/city/whatever. Thus parties with broad but shallow support do get represented in government. The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post…

The Scottish Parliament actually has an element of PR, so we do get some minority parties with seats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament#2011_result It wouldn't surprise me if we have Pirate Party MSPs in a few years. [NB Scotland is still very much a part of the UK, at least for a couple of years or so!].

Ah, I didn't know Scotland had MMP. Good for you. I was thinking of the U.S., Canada, and UK main parliament.

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#18

Post by hef19898 »

mhd wrote: post #15
hef19898 wrote: post #5

Anti-copyright group... That and the "everything for free party" are the most common discriptions media and the established parties are trying to pose on the Pirates right now. That and the misinterpretation that an opposition to an attemt to simply block child pornographic sites when you try to access them from germany equals a support of said sites. They are anew party with some, IMHO interessting fresh approaches.…

What could probably work out well for them is the opposite of a "fresh approach". In an interview today, one of the new members of parliament said that he sees the PP as representing classical liberalism, as opposed to the FDP's neo-liberalism. That would be something to unite behind, beyond straight-forward internet themes. But we'll have to see whether it's something the whole party can agree on. In its ideal form,…

That's what I meant. Apparently, the old is the new fresh, or something like that. :-) What I expect from them is representation of civil rights and personal freedom in society. And you don't even have to be part of the government to do that in Germany. Just one question, you are from Germany, aren't you?

Re: German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

#20

Post by davidw »

hef19898 wrote: post #11
jellicle wrote: post #8

For the political hackers: note that these victories are made possible by Germany's proportional representation system, which guarantees seats in parliaments to any party which gets more than 5% of the popular vote across the state/city/whatever. Thus parties with broad but shallow support do get represented in government. The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post…

Which electoral system is better is another discussion. Both have their flaws, but a pretty good discription of how elections work in Germany.

One serious flaw of the proportional system, like Italy and Israel both have, is that a small party can be the deciding vote, and have a much larger weight than it merits.

For instance: center-left party gets 48% of the vote, communists (they still exist here) get 4% of the vote. To form a majority, the large party must strike a deal with the small party, which can dictate conditions... This happens regularly in Italian politics, and I believe in Israel as well.

Another flaw is that, in Italy at least, since it is not the voters of a given district who decide on one of several candidates, it is the political party who decides who actually gets to be on the list of people sent to parliament. This gives a lot of power to the political party itself, and whoever controls it.

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