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U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

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Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#41

And Switzerland is still out, without any pathway for getting back, negotiations have stalled. This is an absolute disgrace for our country.

Switzerland flushed tremendous amounts of goodwill in all of europe, especially eastern europe, with their ridiculous stance on weapons deliveries - or non-allowance of deliveries tangentially related to switzerland. Don't know whether this especially is related, but expect more of that.

All weapons reexports should be specifically authorized — this is a general international rule (otherwise e.g. Iran could buy Western weapons through reexport agreements). Switzerland used to have a policy for decades that only direct exports were allowed — that directly follows from our neutrality doctrine.

Switzerland has already abandoned lots of its neutrality policies when we (rightfully) joined EU sanctions against Russia, in full. But weapons reexports are the final red line. Otherwise Switzerland will not be able to consider itself a neutral country, which will create a lot of undesirable consequences.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#42

And Switzerland is still out, without any pathway for getting back, negotiations have stalled. This is an absolute disgrace for our country.

Well it isn't that we wouldn't want to participate but the EU is connecting our Horizon participation with other topics that have nothing to do with it. So I don't really see us rejoining it anytime soon.

As a small country, Switzerland will not be able to finance its world-class scientific infrastructure independently. It is a catastrophe. International cooperation is crucial in science.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#43

And Switzerland is still out, without any pathway for getting back, negotiations have stalled. This is an absolute disgrace for our country.

Switzerland flushed tremendous amounts of goodwill in all of europe, especially eastern europe, with their ridiculous stance on weapons deliveries - or non-allowance of deliveries tangentially related to switzerland. Don't know whether this especially is related, but expect more of that.

If Switzerland is 'neutral' then it should neither deliver weapons to one side of a war nor take part in sanctions against a party to a conflict which are not enacted by the UN (since Switzerland is a member).

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it isn't that we wouldn't want to participate but the EU is connecting our Horizon participation with other topics that have nothing to do with it. So I don't really see us rejoining it anytime soon.

As a small country, Switzerland will not be able to finance its world-class scientific infrastructure independently. It is a catastrophe. International cooperation is crucial in science.

Wrong. We paid as much as we got from the program. The collaboration between scientist from across Europe was the more important thing. Sadly science got politicized.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the scheme is there to simplify collaboration across borders and connect research teams with very different skills. While you can still do it outside the EU programs, it will require a lot of administrative work which most universities cannot handle.

If being part of the scheme suddenly makes everything possible then I'd say the system is indeed designed to make things difficult for those not part of the scheme... Let's not kid ourselves, this is geopolitics and influence, not just generous cooperation. Edit: Very strange to observe the reactions to my comment... many of you seem have a knee-jerk, black and white, if not naive, reaction to Brexit and the EU. Both…

Like an club, things for members are different than for non-members. Having a common and agree set of rules makes it easier for the members and more difficult for non-members.

I would take issue with the notion of the EU having any geopolitical capabilities, though.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#47
post #14

FWIW, I don't have numbers, but Horizon Europe is both a research funding scheme and an industry innovation funding scheme. https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/funding/funding... says "This is 70% of the budget earmarked for SMEs." It has both direct research grants (ERC grants), and funds for big consortium projects, where most of the money goes to big companies, with some money also going to SMEs and resea…

It's exactly what I'm wondering. The deal seems to stipulate that on average you'd spend about as much as you receive. If so, why not spend the same amount of money on your own scientist? That way you have full control. I don't get what the UK gets out of it. For the EU I can understand, a larger budget means more science done, means more results. Who cares if some of it happens in the UK, since we are getting paid f…

LOCAL science for LOCAL people.

(It's a shame that Gove has largely dropped out of front-line Brexit advocacy; he looked the part).

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think remaining a member was always something the uk wanted but it seemed to get caught up in the negotiations. The screw up here is not that this is some U-turn but that rejoining/not-leaving didn’t happen much earlier.

It was - and in fact, associate membership of Horizon Europe was part of the original withdrawal agreement, it was just held up by the EU for years over issues with Northern Ireland. Similarly, the parts of the Brexit deal that are currently causing problems for car manufacturers were opposed by the British side but insisted on by the EU, though that didn't stop the British media spinning them as somehow being the UK…

> parts of the Brexit deal that are currently causing problems for car manufacturers were opposed by the British side

Its more complex than that. The issue is that we are outside of the customs union, so building stuff outside and re-importing it (as in multiple factories specialising all over continental europe) becomes expensive in paper work, even though there may not be specific import taxes. Paper work in shipping takes time, money and a bunch of people to do, it makes everything much more expensive.

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#49

And Switzerland is still out, without any pathway for getting back, negotiations have stalled. This is an absolute disgrace for our country.

Switzerland flushed tremendous amounts of goodwill in all of europe, especially eastern europe, with their ridiculous stance on weapons deliveries - or non-allowance of deliveries tangentially related to switzerland. Don't know whether this especially is related, but expect more of that.

It's not related, I would imagine it would be to do with Switzerland and the EU being at odds over the single market and freedom of movement and the EU using Horizon as a stick to 'persuade' them with: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/26/switzerland-pu...

Re: U.K. rejoins Horizon Europe research funding scheme

#50
post #8
post #2

This is great news. I remember when Brexit was announced in my last lab, and at first everything seemed okay, but as the months went on I saw more professor bashing heads or colluding to get those rare precious grants as it became clear that the well was drying up.

Disclaimer: I voted to remain, but this is a great example of misleading/fear mongering by the remain campaign. They very vocally claimed that all the "good bits" of the EU cooperation would be permanently ended by leaving the Union. As evidenced by this news and others, that is untrue. There is clearly room for close cooperation in many areas without surrendering sovereign control over your nation.

Years later, Britain manages to rejoin one thing.

"Oh, right, must all have been Project Fear" is a weird take on this.

(This particular one was actually part of the withdrawal agreement but was held up due to Boris et al fucking about on Northern Ireland)

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