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I digitalized Berlin's registration form

nicolasbouliane.com

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Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#11

Post by FirmwareBurner »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #8
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German authorities have no incitive to digitize and fix the broken bureaucracy because for one, in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong, and secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that. What they want is more bureaucracy and more cushy public servant jobs pushin…

> secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that Increased efficiency doesn't have to mean fewer bureaucrats. It can (and usually does) mean that the same number of bureaucrats achieve all-new levels of intrusiveness.

The German state is already incredibly efficient at coming after you with threatening letters for not submitting the right tax paperwork in time on the 50 Euros earned form your online side-hussle. If only the same efficiency would get ported to everything else that benefits the tax-payer.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#12

Post by iknownothow »

I hope this starts a trend of digitizing many aspects of the German bureaucracy, official or otherwise.

I've sitting on my hands for the last three months to fill out some paperwork. Additionally, I have to apply for this specific appointment via email a few months in advance and it takes weeks for them to reply and if there's any back and forth, that's a few more weeks.

I love Germany, love the bureaucracy too, I just hate the lack of digitization.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#13

Post by notpushkin »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #8
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German authorities have no incitive to digitize and fix the broken bureaucracy because for one, in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong, and secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that. What they want is more bureaucracy and more cushy public servant jobs pushin…

> secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that Increased efficiency doesn't have to mean fewer bureaucrats. It can (and usually does) mean that the same number of bureaucrats achieve all-new levels of intrusiveness.

> It can (and usually does) mean that the same number of bureaucrats achieve all-new levels of intrusiveness.

Well, this turned dark pretty fast huh.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#15

Post by VanTodi »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4
nicbou wrote: post #2

This is a pretty specific problem to solve, but I thought you might have a laugh at our desperately broken bureaucracy on our behalf. I built a digital form filler for a poorly-designed that every Berliner must deal with. I explain what I did to make it clearer and easier to fill.

The German authorities have no incitive to digitize and fix the broken bureaucracy because for one, in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong, and secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that. What they want is more bureaucracy and more cushy public servant jobs pushin…

to be fair, it's way easier now to do your taxes (as a private person). We can do it completely online with no paperwork involved and its actually quite alright. so some innovation is happening, even in the public sector.

what happens in the company is another thing. it really depends on the people working there.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#16

Post by Bayart »

nicbou wrote: post #2

This is a pretty specific problem to solve, but I thought you might have a laugh at our desperately broken bureaucracy on our behalf. I built a digital form filler for a poorly-designed that every Berliner must deal with. I explain what I did to make it clearer and easier to fill.

I've been planning to move to Berlin and your site [1] is a life-saver.

[1]: https://allaboutberlin.com

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#17

Post by snehk »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4
nicbou wrote: post #2

This is a pretty specific problem to solve, but I thought you might have a laugh at our desperately broken bureaucracy on our behalf. I built a digital form filler for a poorly-designed that every Berliner must deal with. I explain what I did to make it clearer and easier to fill.

The German authorities have no incitive to digitize and fix the broken bureaucracy because for one, in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong, and secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that. What they want is more bureaucracy and more cushy public servant jobs pushin…

I'm sorry, but that's just complete nonsense.

> in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong

There's literally not a single political party that doesn't admit that Germany is being too slow here or that doesn't admit that it's embarassing. On a national and on a local level. You can Google that if you don't believe me.

> digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that

Also wrong. There's plenty of unfillable public servant jobs in every city. Public servant jobs are not what they were in the 70s.

> In German state and traditional company culture, digitization is seen as a threat, not an asset.

Also wrong. Germany just upgraded too early, then let everything run and stopped upgrading because the current system works. That's all there is to it. It's also the reason why Romania has faster internet than Germany, for example.

> work process involving copy and pasting shit to and from Excel and some VB scripts

You're in for a wild ride when you find out what kind of IT infrastructure the world uses.

Your whole post is anecdotal and when you try to get to your own interpretation of German culture or why problems exist, you're wrong.

Don't get me wrong: Germany's digital infrastructure _is_ horrible. Just not at all for the reasons you mentioned.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#18

Post by nicbou »

VSerge wrote: post #9
raister wrote: post #3

Now they'll think: "it's time to change the form"...

yup, I can imagine some adversarial changes being made to the effect that the document generated by this online form can be refused by the administration in question. OR if there are people interested in efficiency in this administration, despite what the current state of things would suggest, they could embrace this development, buy the rights to this and implement it on their website for everyone to enjoy. One can…

Such people exist. I have a few acquaintances in city government. They're interested in helping, although some are either busy, tangled in red tape, or unimaginative. They are definitely not hostile through.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#19

Post by gumballindie »

melx wrote: post #10

Kudos on the nice UX for dropdown with countries. I wish more websites do it. Usually, it's "United States" at the very top, and 194 other countries in a loooooong list.

Oddly enough it doesn't list countries where most people are likely to come from right at the top. That makes it ill designed still.

Re: I digitalized Berlin's registration form

#20

Post by mattmanser »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4
nicbou wrote: post #2

This is a pretty specific problem to solve, but I thought you might have a laugh at our desperately broken bureaucracy on our behalf. I built a digital form filler for a poorly-designed that every Berliner must deal with. I explain what I did to make it clearer and easier to fill.

The German authorities have no incitive to digitize and fix the broken bureaucracy because for one, in their mind there's nothing wrong with it because Germany is Europe's wealthiest country so it can never be wrong, and secondly, digitizing bureaucracy means increased efficiency which means less public servant jobs and they don't want that. What they want is more bureaucracy and more cushy public servant jobs pushin…

When you're a bit older and have done more consultancy, you'll realize this isn't the case.

It's just that most people are quite conservative, the middle manager your gf approached was the wrong person, the manager didn't want the headache of the discussion that happens with their superiors (who wrote it, what happens if it goes wrong, where's it sending the data, how much money does he want, etc.) and also simply don't trust some random like you.

If she'd been an external consultant talking to the upper echelons, they'd definitely want this, but not as some random python script. Probably as a nice easy to install Excel plugin.

So you were talking to the wrong person.

What she should have done is use the script to work less and get accolades for being a fast and efficient worker, and never shown it to her boss.

By the way, that's exactly what I did for a g/f myself 4 or 5 years ago, and I specifically warned her not to tell her boss about it as it'd be seen as a problem, not a boon. She loved it, turned a week's worth of work into 1/2 an hour, letting her get on with the bits of the job she actually enjoyed.

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