Your WiFi Can See You

I feel like “putting wifi in my home” is similar to “putting bodies that emit heat in my home”. Neither of which implicitly grant law enforcement to come and observe either through the walls of my home.

I am not a lawyer, nor am I familiar with the SCOTUS case referenced in the article. But I really hope it is precedent enough to make any judge throw out any such violations without any hassle.

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#5

Post by mk_stjames » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:48 AM UTC

If someone is worried that their government could be flashing the firmware of their WiFi router to use the beamforming antennae of the router to track them walking around their home....

Then they should be way more worried that their government is using any access to their wifi router at all. Like, you got way bigger things to worry about at that point, right?

There are a million surveillance side-channels that could be used to build profile-able information about what is happening inside a home from the outside. The concern isn't that those things are possible (they always will be) the concern should be that there are authorities who could be (mis)using such avenues and not explicitly being disallowed in the first place.

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#6

Post by sdrawdes » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:53 AM UTC

Reminds me of The Thought Emporium's camera that can see WiFi. https://youtu.be/g3LT_b6K0Mc?si=PRtkeXRqq8UmhpC9

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#7

Post by ARandomerDude » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:53 AM UTC

mk_stjames wrote: post #5

If someone is worried that their government could be flashing the firmware of their WiFi router to use the beamforming antennae of the router to track them walking around their home.... Then they should be way more worried that their government is using any access to their wifi router at all. Like, you got way bigger things to worry about at that point, right? There are a million surveillance side-channels that could…

I disagree. The trajectory of technology generally is:

possible -> prototype -> product -> common -> common and cheap

If Wi-Fi surveillance were to become common and cheap, other methods would be produced to make data harvesting common and cheap to the surveillance state/bigco. The best way to avoid that dystopia is to safeguard it early in the process.

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#8

Post by yoru-sulfur » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:57 AM UTC

A number of years ago I worked for a company that developed a home security product using this kind of tech: https://www.cognitivesystems.com/

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#9

Post by momirlan » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:59 AM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #7

mk_stjames wrote: post #5

If someone is worried that their government could be flashing the firmware of their WiFi router to use the beamforming antennae of the router to track them walking around their home.... Then they should be way more worried that their government is using any access to their wifi router at all. Like, you got way bigger things to worry about at that point, right? There are a million surveillance side-channels that could…

I disagree. The trajectory of technology generally is: possible -> prototype -> product -> common -> common and cheap If Wi-Fi surveillance were to become common and cheap, other methods would be produced to make data harvesting common and cheap to the surveillance state/bigco. The best way to avoid that dystopia is to safeguard it early in the process.

i don't think any safeguards will protect us from evils brought about by technology - it evolves too fast already for the society to catch up .

Re: Your WiFi Can See You

#10

Post by mk_stjames » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 3:02 AM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #7

mk_stjames wrote: post #5

If someone is worried that their government could be flashing the firmware of their WiFi router to use the beamforming antennae of the router to track them walking around their home.... Then they should be way more worried that their government is using any access to their wifi router at all. Like, you got way bigger things to worry about at that point, right? There are a million surveillance side-channels that could…

I disagree. The trajectory of technology generally is: possible -> prototype -> product -> common -> common and cheap If Wi-Fi surveillance were to become common and cheap, other methods would be produced to make data harvesting common and cheap to the surveillance state/bigco. The best way to avoid that dystopia is to safeguard it early in the process.

What I'm trying to get at is, even if this type of Wifi surveillance becomes commong and cheap, it still requires access at a low level to the wifi router itself. Which should be hands-off in the first place. It's like having cameras in your house on your local network... if the police could legally hack into your network, they could watch you on the cameras to see if you are committing crimes! But... the point is they shouldn't be able to do that, regardless if you have the cameras or not... the line is drawn at the access.

Same thing there. It shouldn't matter if the tech is possible, produced, cheap, and installed in your home.... it's all moot if the act of the surveillance isn't followed through. We need to work towards ways to prevent the acts themselves, as we simply aren't going to be able to prevent the possible sidechannel attacks from being possible. They are always possible.