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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#391

Post by cratermoon »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #352
cratermoon wrote: post #60

How about this compromise: cut the CEO's pay by 40% and give an 80% raise to the workers.

her pay was $29m 40% is $11.6m there’s 160,000 employees $72.50 a year per employee a $1/hr raise for a full time employee is $2,080/year they makes $17/hr and UPS makes $21/hr on the low end part time wise lots of employees want at least $8k/yr raise ($4/hr on the low) a bit different from $72.50

I didn't say "take 40% of the CEO's pay and divide it up among the workers", I said, "take 40% of the CEOs pay AND give the workers an 80% raise". Take $11.6m from the CEO. Give the $17/hr worker at $13.60/hr raise. Give the $21/hr worker a $16.80 raise. Both.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#392

Post by charcircuit »

davorak wrote: post #154
adventured wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

> The only time I see arguments against high CEO pay (speaking generally), it's from people that know absolutely nothing about what a CEO does or how exceptionally difficult it is to operate a very big company. The most common argument I see is that the ceo pay has increased relative to the common or average employee salary. I doubt being a ceo has become that much more difficult over the same time period though.

People are not paid based off difficulty.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#393

Post by lovich »

hellojesus wrote: post #225
olliej wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out "1.5 million in cash" for not doing the job you were hired for is .. not zero. I'm fairly sure I could achieve the same results for considerably less. Moreover making compensation dependent on stock price movement encourages corruption and fraud - look at the numerous Enrons and other financial claims. All of which left the majority of those responsible enriched while destroying the lives of ot…

It's zero of the bonus, of which the CEO had assigned a prior that made him choose that job over other offers he likely had. Performance based bonuses exist at virtually all levels of skill in companies. What you see as a catalyst for fraud could also be framed as a catalyst for incentivizing an outcome most likely achieved via hard/smart work. $1.5M is not nothing, but it's less than 1% of the CEOs potential compens…

>Performance based bonuses exist at virtually all levels of skill in companies

lol. Any data on that? In tech maybe, but I'm fairly confident(also an unsourced opinion) that the vast majority of workers in the US receive zero bonus, skill based or otherwise

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#394

Post by [deleted] »

pests wrote: post #321
bagels wrote: post #279

People get really fixated on CEO pay. Its only of symbolic importance. Google says: 167,000 GM employees Mary Barra salary: $29M Distribute that salary across the whole workforce: $174 per employee They should really be talking about it in terms of inflation or profit margin. GM profit for 2022 was $21B

I always see people show this equation and it never made sense to me. No one is saying the CEO is taking money the employees would have otherwise earned. When you divide it out like that of course its a pittance per employee. The statement is about the relative scale of the CEO pay to one employee. I don't care about the difference applied to all employees. An absurd parody I always imagine: John is 7ft tall. His gro…

[deleted]

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#395

Post by TaylorAlexander »

sib wrote: post #360
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly a competitive company counts as "another company".

Yes - but not every other company - so they have not prevented you from working at another company...

This seems like a bad faith reading of the english sentence here. The phrase "every other company" was not used. Obviously they can depress the value of worker's wages as a whole if they can prevent you from working at the competition - because a worker with a specific skill set will be best utilized at companies which are in the same field, and so generally in competition with one another.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#396

Post by ipaddr »

hellojesus wrote: post #231
highwaylights wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paint the above in starker terms: Worker pay is set by the leadership, leadership pay is set by the leadership.

Leadership is set by shareholders. There is still accountability. Public unions seem more undesirable. There we have the gov negotiating with itself with no external accountability, unlike your example.

Public union leadership is determined by a member vote. Union leadership represents the worker. The external accountability comes from you regardless if your elected official is dealing with a union or a private company

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#397

Post by orange_joe »

ummonk wrote: post #370
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why global worker solidarity is so important.

Why would workers in the global south feel any solidarity towards workers in the wealthiest country on earth who earn global top 5% wages?

well, the unions pushed for wage requirements in the auto industry within the USMCA (NAFTA2) and required Mexico to (effective) legalize unions alongside lots of other rights enshrining measures. So Mexican workers benefited greatly from the work of these unions.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#398

Post by fragmede »

grecy wrote: post #376
meindnoch wrote: post #79

"Obviously, CEOs should be the highest-paid person in an enterprise" Hold on there chap! How is this obvious?

For a fun thought experiment: If the CEO go on strike and don't come to work for a month, how many cars will not be built, and how money will the company lose? If the union factory workers go on strike and don't come to work for a month, how many cars will not be built, and how much money will the company lose? Therefore, who is actually more important to the earnings and success of the company?

That's just the nature of the work though. If the CEO of a film camera business decided that digital cameras weren't going to be a thing, and refuses to pivot, that'll doom the company, but it'll take decades to realize his mistake. The company will lose all its money all the same. If the CEO of the car company decides not to build any factories to make electric vehicles, that decision's also going to take years to play out. They're both important, in different ways.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#399

Post by TaylorAlexander »

WalterBright wrote: post #189
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

> Supply and demand does not account for ... Yes, it does, in each scenario you presented. > We are free to change the perceived value of workers through the power of worker solidarity It's more like using the power of government to ensure the company has no alternative to the union. Company leaders have no actual power over the workers. They cannot force anyone to come to work. They cannot have you arrested. They ca…

> It's more like using the power of government to ensure the company has no alternative to the union.

Unions absolutely do not need the government to exist. It is only through government attempts to control and curtail unions that the government has involved itself in unions. See for example the Taft-Hartley act:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#400

Post by kolbe »

davorak wrote: post #154
adventured wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

> The only time I see arguments against high CEO pay (speaking generally), it's from people that know absolutely nothing about what a CEO does or how exceptionally difficult it is to operate a very big company. The most common argument I see is that the ceo pay has increased relative to the common or average employee salary. I doubt being a ceo has become that much more difficult over the same time period though.

> I doubt being a ceo has become that much more difficult over the same time period though.

So what? The fact that you think this is an argument and not a meaningless talking point further supports the idea that you cannot even comprehend what a CEO does.

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