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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#331

Post by TaylorAlexander »

whatshisface wrote: post #196
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

My econ 101 talked about the difference between commodity and illiquid markets which explains the difference between worker and CEO pay. The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique. Workers in the sectors most often unionized have few distinguishing characteristics from the perspective of the company and are thrown around by the s…

> There is no indication anywhere that supply and demand is wrong about the job market.

It's not that supply and demand is wrong. It's that supply and demand is not the whole story. It is an open question whether workers should change the market forces at play by unionizing and demanding collective bargaining of their wages. This does not subvert supply and demand, it simply alters the pressures the company leadership experiences in the market. I said that the original comment was "wrong" because the comment stated clearly that "wages are only set by supply and demand". This seemed to me to imply that nothing could be done about low worker wages, which is clearly wrong. What workers can do, and apparently in this situation have done, is unionize and strike for better wages.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#332

Post by MuffinFlavored »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #304

This is great. Add this to SAG-AFTRA, Waffle House workers and Starbucks walkouts and we have real movement toward a general strike If both Wal-Mart and Amazon drivers strike we might actually have a shot a taking a bite out of capital finally.

serious question: say everyone you described gets a 20% raise

what do you think will happen to the cost of goods? what companies do you think are operating with enough margin that they can just afford a 20% rise in their payroll costs?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#333

Post by randomdata »

jacobr1 wrote: post #275
randomdata wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Why would it?

Because the pool for a CEO hire is much smaller, than "people with MBAs" as has been floated in thread elsewhere. If you want to hire a CEO, you either usually are looking either at A) A CEO of another company with experiences relevant the current situation, at a size similar to the current company's size. Or B) A senior exec (CFO, COO, etc ...) at the same company, or more rarely an involved board member. These are…

So why would it?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#334

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

bagels wrote: post #279

People get really fixated on CEO pay. Its only of symbolic importance. Google says: 167,000 GM employees Mary Barra salary: $29M Distribute that salary across the whole workforce: $174 per employee They should really be talking about it in terms of inflation or profit margin. GM profit for 2022 was $21B

This is a super bizarre argument.

I suppose I should be paid 167,000 more per year as a software engineer at GM because it's only 1 dollar per employee?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#335

Post by MuffinFlavored »

mortureb wrote: post #291
screye wrote: post #277

I have to wonder. What percent of Tesla's success is attributable to not having legacy union baggage. Unions are the tech debt of the manufacturing world. It starts with a good idea, but if you let it fester, then it quickly becomes more of a drag than a productive addition to your organization.

It’s a balance. Tesla employees are not having a good time, I can tell you from first hand experience. You’ll make reasonable money but it’s not really a life worth living with 12 hour days and extreme stress. Atleast the options made me rich so maybe it was worth it?

what’s something Elon has done better/differently than the GM CEO?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#336

Post by TaylorAlexander »

hgdfhgfdhgdf wrote: post #311
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

I have bad news for you. Those workers who demand 40% wage increases and 32 hour work weeks will be "easily replaced" by auto factories in the South who have right to work laws.

This is why global worker solidarity is so important.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#337

Post by MuffinFlavored »

callalex wrote: post #122
bradleyjg wrote: post #14

I think they should get it and it should be in out of the money stock options. I don’t understand why so many dinosaur companies restrict equity based comp to the C suite.

It’s generally a bad deal for the worker compared to cash. An assembly line worker has absolutely zero say in the direction of the company, their work will never meaningfully move the needle on stock price, so it makes no sense to tie their income to something they have no control over.

why is it working for Tesla line workers?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#338

Post by hellojesus »

wudangmonk wrote: post #177
adventured wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

I can follow your logic for basketball players beause I know the players compete with each in grade school, middle school, high school etc.. until being recruited to play in the NBA. Does this mean that I have been missing the CEO tournaments? surely they must compete with one another after all how else can you compare who is better without a direct face off?. It seems like the big companies always get the best CEOs…

CEO opportunities, especially the first, are very network heavy or "right place right time" heavy. Try contacting some headhunters. They may have leads.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#339

Post by chadash »

tysam_and wrote: post #9

There is an equation with an equilibrium: CEO's pay rate = (some multiplier) * median salaried worker's pay rate OR CEO's pay rate = (some multiplier) * minimum salaried worker's pay rate We've been conditioned to think it's not fair somehow, but the discrepancy is just....engorgingly terrible. I'm not arguing for how this metric would be enforced, only that it would be a good one to have. Especially in a time when g…

The problem with this is that the CEO of Walmart is a much more important job than the CEO of McKinsey but under this formula they would get paid a fraction of the amount, no matter how well they did for Walmart workers.

The end result of this situation would probably be a mad dash to automate away any blue collar work, which may not be such a great thing.

It’s a tough problem.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#340

Post by TheHappyOddish »

galleywest200 wrote: post #169
lr4444lr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the highest accountability.

But do they do the most for the company, though? What about those who actually invent their products in R&D, or any of that?

I've yet to come across a company that pays the highest output individuals the most. That's not how capitalism works.
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