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Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

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Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#111

Wow, there is a lot here and what here is to a pretty impressive level of polish for how far along this is. The background of someone with a DX background comes through! I will be looking into this a lot more. Here are a few comments, notes, and questions: * I like the focus on DX (especially compared to other OSS solutions) in your messaging here, and I think your hero messaging tells that story, but it isn't reinfo…

Clickhouse is proprietary, though. I wonder why not Apache Druid

> Clickhouse is proprietary

No. Clickhouse is opensource with Apache License [0].

[0] - https://github.com/ClickHouse/ClickHouse/blob/master/LICENSE

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#112

what is DX? why not grafana / prometheus / loki?

(Since DX is already explained...)

Grafana/Prom/Loki is an awesome stack - overall I'd say that we try to correlate more signals in one place (your logs traces session replay), and we also take an approach to go more dev-friendly to query instead of going the PromQL/LogQL route.

It's a stack I really wanted to love myself as well but I've personally ran into a few issues when using it:

Loki is a handful to get right, you have to think about your labels, they can't be high-cardinality (ex. IDs), the search is really slow if it's not a label, and the syntax is complex because it's derived from PromQL which I don't think is a good fit for logs. This means an engineer on your team can't just jump in and start typing keywords to match on, nor can they just log out logs and know they can quickly find it again in prod. Engineers need to filter logs by a label first and then wait for a regex to run if they want to do full-text search.

Prometheus is pretty good, my only qualm is again the approachability of PromQL - it's rare to see an engineer that isn't fluent with time-series/metric systems to be able to pick up all the concepts very quickly. This means that metrics access is largely limited to premade dashboards or a certain set of engineers that know the Prometheus setup really well.

Grafana has definitely set the standard for OSS metrics, but I personally haven't had a lot of success using their tools outside of metrics, though ymmv and it's all about the tradeoffs you're looking for in an observability tool.

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#113
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially useful resource – https://github.com/gajus/liqe

I've tried liqe! I really wanted to love it - and I think it's amazing for the use case you've built it for, but I recall we ran into a few fatal issues (maybe it was supporting URLs or something as a property value?) and had to fork one of the `lucene` forks to get the grammar that we wanted. Edit: happy to chat more about it as well if you're looking for more specific feedback - it's an area I've spent a decent amo…

Antlr is pretty robust too, might be worth checking out.

https://www.antlr.org/

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just clarifying, your alternative to open core is open nothing? Just proprietary it up?

Alternatives depend on what the goals of the person or organization who wrote the code are. There are various FOSS and source available options that can grant some freedoms while protecting others for the creator, such as if they want to let users still contribute and view the source. My main point was you should get these ducks in order first and be genuine with your intentions. Don't use FOSS as a growth hack, it n…

> it's all kumbaya FOSS until you start encroaching on their enterprise feature set.

The open core model relies on a delicate balance of ensuring that the OSS product is featureful and standalone, while successfully monetizing value added features for advanced users and enterprise customers. Not many companies do this right, but there are those that understand and handle this balance well, and manage to have both a successful OSS and commercial product. Grafana comes to mind, for example.

Just because you think that SSO is a required feature that should be part of the OSS product doesn't mean that HyperDX is using OSS as a growth hack. Nor is it fair to label a young startup that for a product that just launched.

FWIW I agree with their decision to make SSO a paid feature, but we can go over any number of features, and some OSS user is guaranteed to demand a specific feature, yet will not be willing to pay for it. SSO is not special, unless it's a core feature that the product depends on, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

When done right, open core is the best model to monetize OSS projects, and we should be thankful that companies adopt it at all. I'd use an open core product before a proprietary one any day of the week.

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#115
This is awesome! Datadog's one of my favorite providers, and their pricing is great for small businesses, but probably unaffordable for larger businesses (as pointed out in these threads).

This is slick and fast. Will have to check it out. Thanks for making it!

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#116
A good one. A lot is being built on top of clickhouse. I can count at least 3 if not more (hyperdx, signoz and highlight) built on top of clickhouse now.

We at OpenObserve are solving the same problem but a bit differently. A much simpler solution that anyone can run using a single binary on their own laptop or in a cluster of hundreds of nodes backed by s3. Covers logs, metrics, traces, Session replay, RUM and error tracking are being released by end of the month) - https://github.com/openobserve/openobserve

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#117

First paragraph https://github.com/hyperdxio/hyperdx "HyperDX helps engineers figure out why production is broken faster by centralizing and correlating logs, metrics, traces, exceptions and session replays in one place. An open source and developer-friendly alternative to Datadog and New Relic." Just perfect. Bravo. -- As a merc, I never understood the why of Datadog (or equiv). The teams and projects I rotated thru…

Yes! It should definitely be thoughtful about what you log and how you expect to use it. My biggest gripe with logs is often people writing them never think about "how would I use this when things are on fire?" and tend to log useless information or fail to tag them in ways that are actually searchable. Tagging the right IDs are a huge thing - customer X is saying their instance is really slow, but if none of your lo…

PS- I just skimmed https://opentelemetry.io, which your readme.md links to.

Good stuff. Much industry progress since I was last in the arena.

Their site has words about manual and automatic instrumentation. I'd have to dig a bit to see what they mean.

--

So. Remembering a bit more... Will try to keep this brief; you're a busy person.

> tend to log useless information or fail to tag them in ways that are actually searchable

#1 - I don't know know to manage lifecycle of meta. Who needs what? When is it safe to remove stuff?

We logged a lot of URLs. So many URL params. And when that wasn't crazy enough, over flow into HTTP headers. Plus partially duplicate, incorrectly, info in the payloads, a la SOAP. ("A person with two watches has no idea what time it is.")

When individual teams were uncertain, they'd just forward everything they received (copypasta), and add their own stuff.

Just replace all that context with correlation IDs, right?

Ah, but there's "legacy". And unsupported protocols, like Redis and JDBC. And brain dead 3rd party services, with their own brain dead CSRs and engrs.

This is really bad, and just propagates badness, but a few times, in a pinch, I've created Q&D "logging proxy". Just to get some visibility.

So dumb. And yet... Why stop there? Just have "the fabric" record stuff. Repurpose Wireguard into an Omniscient Logger. (Like the NSA does. Probably.) That'd eliminate most I/O trace style logging, right?

Image all these "webservices" and serverless apps without any need for instrumentation. Just have old school app level logging.

#2 - So much text processing.

An egregious example is logging HTTP headers. Serialize them as JSON and send that payload to a logging service. Which then rehydrate and store it some where.

My radical idea, which exactly no one has bought into, is to just pipe HTTP (Requests and Responses) as-is to log files. Then rotate, groom, archive, forward, ingest, compress, whatever as desired.

That's what I did on the system I mentioned. All I/O was just streamed to files. And in the case of the HL7 (medical records stuff), it was super easy to extract the good bits, use that for Lucene's metadata, and store the whole message as the Lucene document.

I know such a radical idea is out of scope for your work. Just something fun to think about.

#3

> if none of your logs let you link service performance to customer X

Yup. Just keep adding servers. Kick the can down the road.

One team I helped had stuff randomly peg P95. And then sometimes a seemingly unrelated server would tip over. Between timeouts, retries, and load balancers, it really seemed like the ankle bone was connected to the shoulder bone. It just made no sense.

Fortunately, I had some prior experience. Being new to nodejs, maybe 5 years ago, I was shocked to learn there was no notion of back pressure. It was a challenging concept to explain to those teammates. But the omission of backpressure, and a hunch, was a good place for me start. (I'm no Dan Luu or Bryan Cantrill.)

I'd like to think that proper end-to-end logging, and the ability to find signal in the noise, diagnosis would have been more mundane.

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#118
Anyone has objectives blogs/videos that tested/compared all those new platforms? I feel like I see a new one on HN every month. From my quick research: signoz, openobserve, uptrace, highlight.io, opstrace. I would like to recommend some alternatives to my clients, but I don't have time to test them all and keep up with their progress.

I am also worried about long term viability of those platforms. Consolidation is bound to happen, opstrace was in my bookmark last year and they got acquired. Guessing others will follow, since I dont really think they are sustainable without on-going VC funding. Interested to get thoughts on that.

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#119

A good one. A lot is being built on top of clickhouse. I can count at least 3 if not more (hyperdx, signoz and highlight) built on top of clickhouse now. We at OpenObserve are solving the same problem but a bit differently. A much simpler solution that anyone can run using a single binary on their own laptop or in a cluster of hundreds of nodes backed by s3. Covers logs, metrics, traces, Session replay, RUM and error…

Sentry as well https://blog.sentry.io/introducing-snuba-sentrys-new-search-...

Re: Show HN: HyperDX – open-source dev-friendly Datadog alternative

#120

Wow, there is a lot here and what here is to a pretty impressive level of polish for how far along this is. The background of someone with a DX background comes through! I will be looking into this a lot more. Here are a few comments, notes, and questions: * I like the focus on DX (especially compared to other OSS solutions) in your messaging here, and I think your hero messaging tells that story, but it isn't reinfo…

Clickhouse is proprietary, though. I wonder why not Apache Druid

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