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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#231

Post by hellojesus »

highwaylights wrote: post #57
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

To paint the above in starker terms: Worker pay is set by the leadership, leadership pay is set by the leadership.

Leadership is set by shareholders. There is still accountability.

Public unions seem more undesirable. There we have the gov negotiating with itself with no external accountability, unlike your example.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#232

Post by turnsout »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #158
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

Stellantis has 270,000+ employees across 16 brands. I'm not saying their CEO does or doesn't deserve $20m in compensation but at some point you're going to run into a problem where... nobody wants to do that job for $1m/yr and they wouldn't be qualified or very good at it.

True, although if you're getting above $1M/year as a CEO, it's not because "the job is really hard." In fact, the bigger the company, the more layers of management to keep you from any real work.

Instead, the board has approved that compensation based on very real business needs: growing the company, acquiring competitors, changing business models, etc. It's actually hard to find a leader who has experience doing that thing and is also the right fit. Hiring the wrong CEO is a quick way to kill the whole company. On the flip side, to the board, a CEO that can drive meaningful growth is worth the risk, even if they have to fire with a golden parachute two years later.

I'm not trying to justify pay disparity (in fact I think there should be minimum AND maximum FT salaries when currently there are neither), but that's what's going through the board's mind when they set CEO compensation.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#233

Post by smutlord2099 »

listless wrote: post #222
whatshisface wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My econ 101 talked about the difference between commodity and illiquid markets which explains the difference between worker and CEO pay. The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique. Workers in the sectors most often unionized have few distinguishing characteristics from the perspective of the company and are thrown around by the s…

This is so obviously the right answer, I can’t believe its not upvoted more. To be clear, I stand with the union on the principal of their argument. However, the principals of economics itself, much like gravity, do not care about the nobility of your cause. It seems to me that what the union is asking for is that the corporation act more like a benevolent force than one that is restricted by market pressures. Of cou…

"but those violent delights have violent ends." You talk as though the US isn't steeped in regulation. All modern capitalist nations are. Without regulation, you get absurd instabilities as we saw until the New Deal.

If someone's selling you a simple explanation, they're likely wrong.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#234

Post by lucaspm98 »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #176
Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

Jeff bezos has something to say about the 5pm thing : "By 5 p.m., I'm like, 'I can't think about that today. Let's try this again tomorrow at 10 a.m,'" he told the Economic Club of Washington, DC. https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-daily-routine-201...

That's a well known quote precisely because it's such an outlier.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#235

Post by ryukoposting »

tysam_and wrote: post #9

There is an equation with an equilibrium: CEO's pay rate = (some multiplier) * median salaried worker's pay rate OR CEO's pay rate = (some multiplier) * minimum salaried worker's pay rate We've been conditioned to think it's not fair somehow, but the discrepancy is just....engorgingly terrible. I'm not arguing for how this metric would be enforced, only that it would be a good one to have. Especially in a time when g…

I would love it if my brokerage would show me that multiplier for the companies I invest in.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#236

Post by Alupis »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #176
Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

Jeff bezos has something to say about the 5pm thing : "By 5 p.m., I'm like, 'I can't think about that today. Let's try this again tomorrow at 10 a.m,'" he told the Economic Club of Washington, DC. https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-daily-routine-201...

If you believe this means after 5pm Jeff Bezos forgot all about Amazon, then you are sorely wrong. Nobody, and that means nobody builds a business the size of Amazon within a single lifetime and did not work/think constantly.

It's kind of like how people think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs just accidentally became some of the most successful people on earth...

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#237

Post by turnsout »

CraigRo wrote: post #207
kibwen wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody wants to do that job for $1m/yr I invite everyone here to raise their hand if they're just as hard-pressed as me to think of any job that they wouldn't do for a million per year.

Nobody who is qualified to do it... I've worked with executives at that level, and let's face it-- most of us don't have the single-minded devotion to do it, nor the experience to manage thousands of people.

I mean, to be fair, no executive is managing thousands of people. Maybe leading thousands of people, but there's a real physical limit to how many people you can directly manage.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#238

Post by Alupis »

sgarland wrote: post #206
Alupis wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bad SRE team can destroy your company. Ah, and the SRE team assembled themselves, hired themselves, decided what to work on, direction, technology, plans, etc all on their own? Or is there a C-Suite running the SRE team, even if indirectly? > If the entire C-Suite quit, uh… what exactly would happen? People would continue doing what they had already been doing? This is beyond naïve, I'm not sure what to call it.…

> Ah, and the SRE team assembled themselves, hired themselves, decided what to work on, direction, technology, plans, etc all on their own? And you think the CEO did this? No - hiring managers and directors decided it was necessary. > This is beyond naïve Not at all. Who decides what the product needs? Product Managers, or sometimes Engineers directly. “Setting company direction” is vague at best, and can easily be r…

> No - hiring managers and directors decided it was necessary.

Where did the hiring managers come from? Poofed out of nowhere?

How did they know what to hire? Just made up their own direction?

This would be like if a McDonald's line cook could just decide the company no longer will offer the Big Mac because they don't like making it.

This line of thinking is so typical for a developer. You even reference Scrum like that means anything in the areas we're discussing. But even in that setting, how do you think Product Owners know what things to prioritize? They're just making it up as they go?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#239

Post by prawn »

nerdponx wrote: post #133
amarshall wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're the CEO of a company and you increased profits by 92% This assumes that the increase in profit is attributable primarily to the CEO. Well, that at least 43% (40/92) of it is. > Just ask for what you think you deserve and don't work if you don't get it. It's as simple as that. This only really works with unions. Fortunately, these workers have one.

> Just ask for what you think you deserve and don't work if you don't get it. This is the most wildly privileged take possible on the issue.

I agree. Someone in the leadership tier can generally get by longer without desperately needing to work; their house is often paid off, they get dividends from shares, etc. Down in the blue collar ranks, many of those people are scrounging to stay on top of rent, or pay a mortgage, or getting hit by rising food costs. Many workers aren't in a position to change jobs on a whim.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#240

Post by noizejoy »

whatshisface wrote: post #196
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

My econ 101 talked about the difference between commodity and illiquid markets which explains the difference between worker and CEO pay. The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique. Workers in the sectors most often unionized have few distinguishing characteristics from the perspective of the company and are thrown around by the s…

> The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique.

Wouldn’t that be simply favouritism/cronyism rather than a free market?

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