Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 611 posts

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#221

Post by IgorPartola »

Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

The point isn’t to compare CEO and factory worker salaries dollar for dollar. The point is to compare growth rates of both over years. If the company grows 3x, CEO salary grows 10x, and worker salary grows not at all, how does that make sense to you?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#222

Post by listless »

whatshisface wrote: post #196
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

My econ 101 talked about the difference between commodity and illiquid markets which explains the difference between worker and CEO pay. The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique. Workers in the sectors most often unionized have few distinguishing characteristics from the perspective of the company and are thrown around by the s…

This is so obviously the right answer, I can’t believe its not upvoted more. To be clear, I stand with the union on the principal of their argument. However, the principals of economics itself, much like gravity, do not care about the nobility of your cause.

It seems to me that what the union is asking for is that the corporation act more like a benevolent force than one that is restricted by market pressures. Of course, you could use the power of government as one poster mentioned to force this issue, but those violent delights have violent ends.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#223

Post by conradev »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

> Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address.

You’re both right. Power dynamics and supply and demand are interrelated.

Most forms of human organization involve hierarchy. Even co-ops have a CEO and that CEO makes a multiple of base worker pay.

What that multiple is and how it gets decided is a fair question: in co-ops, voting rights are built-in, but for private corporations you need collective bargaining

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#225

Post by hellojesus »

olliej wrote: post #180
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

As someone pointed out "1.5 million in cash" for not doing the job you were hired for is .. not zero. I'm fairly sure I could achieve the same results for considerably less. Moreover making compensation dependent on stock price movement encourages corruption and fraud - look at the numerous Enrons and other financial claims. All of which left the majority of those responsible enriched while destroying the lives of ot…

It's zero of the bonus, of which the CEO had assigned a prior that made him choose that job over other offers he likely had.

Performance based bonuses exist at virtually all levels of skill in companies. What you see as a catalyst for fraud could also be framed as a catalyst for incentivizing an outcome most likely achieved via hard/smart work.

$1.5M is not nothing, but it's less than 1% of the CEOs potential compensation.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#226

Post by taf2 »

spondyl wrote: post #141
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

> It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. It gets a little weirder than that I suppose since you might have a great deal of shares in a company, which you never exercise so you could say that money doesn't really exist until exercised. You can however use those shares as collateral for a mortgage or other li…

Isn’t that kind of lending what caused the Great Depression? Pretty sure you can’t take a loan out on a promise of an option value…

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#227

Post by WalterBright »

aaomidi wrote: post #87
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

Right, but in general the CEO doesn’t really do much to the stock price. If the general market is up, it’s going up. If the market is down, it’s going down. How many companies really break that relationship in their market sector? So tldr, ceo pay is based on the economic cycle rather than how the company does.

> but in general the CEO doesn’t really do much to the stock price

Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Satya Nadella, etc.

> ceo pay is based on the economic cycle rather than how the company does

You can always start your own corporation, name yourself CEO (all you gotta do is file some paperwork and pay an annual fee) and rake in the dough for doing nothing!!

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#228

Post by tyingq »

mortureb wrote: post #82
vadym909 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was that easy it would’ve happened already. And software engineers jobs would have moved first due to savings and low effort and low infrastructure changes required.

40% of IT work is already outsourced and that’s a number that is rapidly growing and that’s only over a decade and a half. It doesn’t even take into account foreign employees that now just work remotely.

Sort of. There's a lot of outsourced work. It doesn't appear to have cannibalized the onshore work in a significant way.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#230

Post by mplewis »

wang_li wrote: post #171
l33t7332273 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. As it should be. Record profits deserve record contracts.

Only if the contracts automatically follow profits. Profits are not a ratchet, while contracts typically are. Also they are asking for more than pay raises and shortened work week. They're also demanding health benefits for retirees and defined benefit pensions among other things.

All of these things are good for workers, their quality of life, and the quality of their work, and American workers deserve those things.
Post reply on HN