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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#191

Post by pixelatedindex »

adventured wrote: post #65
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

> And should mediocre CEOs that fail or otherwise perform poorly get golden parachutes? No, of course not.

Oh but they do! That’s the rub. Also it’s very hand wavy to say “the CEO’s job is exceptionally difficult”. But that person has a whole bunch of people bringing him ideas and trying to improve the company. In fact, that’s how you even get promoted. So they pick a bunch of things to do. If it doesn’t go well and the stock tanks, the first person to leave are the workers and not the CEO. In fact, in almost every case the CEO is the last to get affected. Win or lose for the company, the CEOs only win.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#192

Post by Aeolun »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #121
Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

I'm not sure how you hope coming out justifying the ridiculous state of CEO pay is going to go for you, but the problem is the incentives are not aligned. CEOs make big decisions... but they get paid more money than they'll ever need even if they do doom the company. In fact, many CEOs against union workers are torching their own companies to avoid a fair deal which would cost their businesses less . The only way CEO…

> having a deeply flawed moral fiber that enables you to sleep at night after doing unusually cruel things to everyone else

I don’t think this is necessarily true. You might just be really good at lying to yourself.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#194

Post by Alupis »

SECProto wrote: post #170
Alupis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Successful or not is not the point. If met with the 40% pay increase it's another huge pay raise. There is no reality where line workers screwing in the same 3 door bolts all day long are getting what amounts to an effective ~70% pay increase. Additionally, the 4 day work week is yet unproven in an industrial setting, such as are UAW member's jobs.

> Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season > There is no reality where line workers screwing in the same 3 door bolts all day long are getting what amounts to an effective ~70% pay increase in one year. Please align your own comments. They are looking for a 40% hourly pay increase over 4 years, and a reduction to a 32 hour work week. These combined work out to an increase of 12% in annual pay, over four yea…

Ah, so the propaganda has already started.

In four year's time, will their pay be 70% higher than it is today if all demands are met?

Yes.

Are you hopeful about a 70% pay increase in four years? I sure am not...

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#196

Post by whatshisface »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #124
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> As many argue, wages are only set by supply and demand. Most of the time that I see people invoke "Econ 101" concepts, they are wrong. Supply and demand does not account for the power imbalance between workers and leadership, which unions specifically attempt to address. It does not account for the class differences between workers trying to make ends meet and the board of directors who believe they deserve much hi…

My econ 101 talked about the difference between commodity and illiquid markets which explains the difference between worker and CEO pay. The CEOs are coming from a restricted group of insiders and can't be replaced because of their relationships which make them unique. Workers in the sectors most often unionized have few distinguishing characteristics from the perspective of the company and are thrown around by the same laws as the price of corn. The black death is a well-documented example of a restriction in the labor supply raising the price of labor and improving the wellbeing of laborers. There is no indication anywhere that supply and demand is wrong about the job market.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#197

Post by wins32767 »

olliej wrote: post #180
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

As someone pointed out "1.5 million in cash" for not doing the job you were hired for is .. not zero. I'm fairly sure I could achieve the same results for considerably less. Moreover making compensation dependent on stock price movement encourages corruption and fraud - look at the numerous Enrons and other financial claims. All of which left the majority of those responsible enriched while destroying the lives of ot…

> I'm fairly sure I could achieve the same results for considerably less.

I'm highly skeptical of that. Not driving the company value to zero is worth a significant amount of money; anyone who has worked under a bad executive or CEO can tell the difference between one that didn't accomplish aggressive goals and one that's objectively bad. If you have a bunch of executive experience, maybe you'd be able to replicate that CEO's performance, but absent that it's more likely you'd cause more harm than just not making the goal.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#199

Post by astrange »

spondyl wrote: post #141
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

> It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. It gets a little weirder than that I suppose since you might have a great deal of shares in a company, which you never exercise so you could say that money doesn't really exist until exercised. You can however use those shares as collateral for a mortgage or other li…

In this case he didn't get any shares. If he'd used the options to get a mortgage then he's got a pretty big hole in his pocket when they became worthless.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#200

Post by iamdbtoo »

adventured wrote: post #65
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

Lebron James is not the CEO of his team. In your analogy, he's a worker not a CEO. He was the vice president of the player's union.

The NBA compensates workers based on the value they bring to the team. Isn't that what the UAW is arguing for?

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