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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#171

Post by wang_li »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #111
dmitrygr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're likely looking for anywhere between 20-30% over 4 years when it's all said and done. TFA conveniently points out to you that 20% has been offered to them and was rejected.

Good. As it should be. Record profits deserve record contracts.

Only if the contracts automatically follow profits. Profits are not a ratchet, while contracts typically are.

Also they are asking for more than pay raises and shortened work week. They're also demanding health benefits for retirees and defined benefit pensions among other things.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#172

Post by ripvanwinkle »

adventured wrote: post #65
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

One big difference is with a NBA team there are only about 9 - 11 other primary contributors, maybe some coaches and back office staff. At any large company there are tens of thousands pulling the boat (pick your metaphor), however the rest have limited bargaining power (without a union). CEOs sit on the board and are good friends with board members and often return the favor on other boards and networks.

CEO wage negotiations have nothing in common with employee wage setting.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#173

Post by jacobr1 »

smfjaw wrote: post #96
candiddevmike wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SREs aren't on the board of directors setting the pay for other SREs who are on their board of directors though. The elite/ownership/"capitalism winner" class are playing on an entirely different level with their power and influence. Don't kid yourself into drawing comparisons with your situation and miniscule in comparison compensation. It's always heads they win, tails you lose.

[flagged]

That is generally how it works though. The buyer wants to pay as little as possible and seller wants the maximum. That works in most circumstances.

In the case hiring, in a tight labor market, there are more open roles than people, so the companies that want a particular hire, or value experience in that role, need to pay more to secure the candidate. And those that don't, end up with roles that aren't filled. In a market with more labor, then the firm has its pick of candidates, and can make lower offers, secure in the fact it probably will get a bite from a candidate with fewer options.

It works that way with oil, or hog futures, or my corner bodega's sandwich prices.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#174

Post by atleastoptimal »

Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

So those with the least leverage to earn more just so happen to deserve to be paid just as little as they are, and those who have severely disproportionate influence on their earnings just happen to be making exactly what they deserve?

Trying to justify exorbitant C-suite salaries because they often work hard (in conditions significantly easing working hard due to having a litany of assistants to handle boring stuff, private jets, drivers, Michelin starred meals with regulators, lawyers an executives counting as "work") is silly when you look at how hard so many working class people work. But I know you know this, so it seems you're just blaming them for being born poor, unconnected and not having the "big business brain" that all C-suite executives must have.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#175

Post by mschuster91 »

astrange wrote: post #159
mschuster91 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to do export promotion instead. That's what us Germans did, and look where it brought us to: our car companies make a significant chunk of their profit in China - Deka estimates the Chinese share of BMW profits at ~40% [1], for VW all I could find is that 41% of their exports go to China, for Mercedes it's 37%. Now the Chinese government is massively subsidizing domestic electric vehicles, and our car comp…

Sounds like they made a lot of money they wouldn't have otherwise. If they're not making that in the future, that's still better than the alternative. You could always sell to the rest of Europe, but since they're in a fiscal union with you and you refuse to deficit spend, they're not very good customers.

The problem is the car manufacturers are massively leveraged against and now China has our economies by the balls. All the CCP needs to do is squeeze them and we're in for many years of pain as we unravel our unhealthy dependency on both China and the automotive industry.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#176

Post by whynotmaybe »

Alupis wrote: post #74

Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season. Between UAW Strike, SWG Strike, barely avoided UPS Strike, and probably a few I'm leaving out, we're going to be inundated with half truths, misdirection, selective statistics and even the occasional outright lie. UAW opening demand isn't just a 40% pay hike - but also a four day workweek (when combined is ~70% increase in pay). Nobody expects for UAW to get everyth…

Jeff bezos has something to say about the 5pm thing :

"By 5 p.m., I'm like, 'I can't think about that today. Let's try this again tomorrow at 10 a.m,'" he told the Economic Club of Washington, DC.

https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-daily-routine-201...

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#177

Post by wudangmonk »

adventured wrote: post #65
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay. Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy. Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market. ~450 active players earning arou…

I can follow your logic for basketball players beause I know the players compete with each in grade school, middle school, high school etc.. until being recruited to play in the NBA.

Does this mean that I have been missing the CEO tournaments? surely they must compete with one another after all how else can you compare who is better without a direct face off?. It seems like the big companies always get the best CEOs so they must have scouts all over the place on the lookout for that great undiscovered CEO talent.

Or could it be that big companies always produce "great" CEO because its a lot harder to fail and a lot easier to win when you are stearing the biggest ships.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#178

Post by lancesells »

gretch wrote: post #55
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

I support the workers' decision and negotiating on labor rates is the basis of our economic system. Get what you deserve. That said, the CEO pay is easily explainable: > Profits at the struck auto companies increased 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion, according to EPI > CEO pay at the Big Three has grown 40% in the last decade, according to EPI If you're the CEO of a company and you increased profits by 92…

> If you're the CEO of a company and you increased profits by 92%,

If it's a company of one than I agree. In any other scenario the CEO led the company to a 92% increase. The CEO didn't do this alone. They maybe managed that increase and had a part in it but others most likely did the vast majority of all the work.

Now, how do you feel if the CEO fired 50% of the workers and maybe the remaining work twice as much to make up the slack. This leads to a 92% increase in profits and the CEO deserves the vast rewards?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#180

Post by olliej »

astrange wrote: post #38
econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

It depends how they're counting. There was an example in Money Stuff this week where a CEO got a pay package "worth $110 million". It's actually made of stock options that vest if the share price went above $150, but the expected value was $110 million so that's what was reported. …But the share price only reached $66. So in fact he was paid zero, and he quit. (Well, $1.5 million in cash.) https://www.wsj.com/busines…

As someone pointed out "1.5 million in cash" for not doing the job you were hired for is .. not zero.

I'm fairly sure I could achieve the same results for considerably less.

Moreover making compensation dependent on stock price movement encourages corruption and fraud - look at the numerous Enrons and other financial claims. All of which left the majority of those responsible enriched while destroying the lives of others.

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