Live data from Hacker News

Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

cnbc.com

61–70 of 611 posts

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#61
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no academic training to be a good CEO. They are not easily replaceable. If they were, board members wouldn’t bother offering such high pay. Shareholders don’t appreciate wasting money.

They've become 14.6x more efficient at ... what? Increasing their pay? C'mon.

Like it or not, they've become more efficient at maximizing shareholder returns. 1978 to present included all sorts of financial shenanigans designed to turn a company from the old school "return on assets" model to a financial vehicle that profits on the spread between it's revenue stream and financing costs. I think it's shit too, but the job turned from running a company go making money appear, and the pay went with it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game (seriously, the system is screwed up horribly)

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#62

I've heard a counter-argument to this before and I'm curious to get other's take on it. Basically, the story goes that when an individual rises into a significant leadership position at a large enough company that the economic calculations become different. There's still an element of domain expertise, but, for the most part, leadership is leadership wherever you go. This implies that a leader could (potentially) mov…

It's more likely that it is the only role that tends to be in the room when the board is deciding salaries. Turns out it's great to be able to decide how much your own compensation should be.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#63
I don't follow why workers' pay should increase at the same rate as their CEOs' pay. They're subject to entirely different labor markets with accompanying risks, opportunity costs, supply, demand, cost of replacement, etc.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#64
post #37

This kind of logic doesn't help anyone - yes, CEO pay is insane but its that way because of how much risk they take ownership of and shoulder day in day out. If one line worker forgets to tie a wire-harness it's not like the entire company will end up in financial ruin... However, the CEO making serious mistakes can and has cost GM millions.

That's why the pay rates are different, but that doesn't explain why the pay rates should increase by different percentages

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#65

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

> Use the same framework to explain CEO pay.

Sure. It's the same framework that explains the pay of Lebron James. The NBA became a massively popular global game during the era of fast growth globalization, in which billions of consumers entered into the active global economy.

Now you've got like 50 players earning $30m or more per year in the NBA. To play a game in just the US market.

~450 active players earning around $5 billion per year in just league salary (not counting endorsements).

Now do it for global football, NFL football, Nascar, Major League Baseball, Hockey, F1, and so on.

Who knows the insane total compensation figure. $30 billion?

The economic force producing that comically massive figure, is the exact same reason Tim Cook is worth every dollar he's getting paid to operate the juggernaut that is Apple. The same goes for Nadella at Microsoft.

The top 450 NBA players earn more in salary every year than the CEOs of the S&P 500. Why shouldn't a CEO get paid extraordinarily well, as well as an NBA all-star, for operating a $10 or $20 billion market cap corporation? Obviously they should.

The only time I see arguments against high CEO pay (speaking generally), it's from people that know absolutely nothing about what a CEO does or how exceptionally difficult it is to operate a very big company.

And should mediocre CEOs that fail or otherwise perform poorly get golden parachutes? No, of course not. Exceptional CEOs should get properly exceptional pay. They deserve to earn drastically more than the average worker.

The common Redditor railing against CEO pay, looks at a Tim Cook and thinks they can maybe do what Cook does (he just sits in his chair in a big office while other people do all the work, dur dur dur), or what Nadella does, or a random S&P 500 CEO does. In reality they can barely do their own basic job, much less one ten tiers above them. The average Redditor is further away from being able to do Tim Cook's job than they are being able to do the job of Lebron James. The issue is the average person doesn't know anything about what a CEO does at all, they're entirely ignorant of it. However they can watch Lebron James play basketball and immediately understand they can't do anything like what James can do, because they get the physical visual display immediately, meanwhile they know zip about the job of a CEO at a big company. As usual the issue is extreme ignorance and mediocre education.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#66
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no academic training to be a good CEO. They are not easily replaceable. If they were, board members wouldn’t bother offering such high pay. Shareholders don’t appreciate wasting money.

They've become 14.6x more efficient at ... what? Increasing their pay? C'mon.

The person you're replying to is suggesting that their pay rates are inelastic due to scarcity.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#68

> “Obviously, CEOs should be the highest-paid person in an enterprise, but then the question is exactly just how much higher than everyone else,” Josh Bivens, chief economist at EPI, told NPR. I thought I read that at Japanese companies the CEO doesn't make 300 times what the workers make. Maybe the CEO made 10 times at most?

This is true, but they also tend to get free use of things like homes and cars owned by their company.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#69

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

There is no academic training to be a good CEO. They are not easily replaceable. If they were, board members wouldn’t bother offering such high pay. Shareholders don’t appreciate wasting money.

The argument is not that CEOs are not valuable. The argument is that there's no obvious increase in their value since the 70s that might justify their relative pay increase.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cough WTO cough

The WTO has been fucked over for years now. Practically they've been kneecapped since 2019 "thanks" to the 45th [1], and even before that, they didn't do much against the clear breaches of good conduct that China committed, and for what it's worth it's not like the actions of the 45th were without good cause, even back under Bush the WTO was infamous for being slow as molasses even compared to other international org…

I'm just amazed how, with enough money invested into propaganda of economic liberalism (still a paltry sum in the grand order of things), you can have smart people around the world repeating your mantras without noticing for decades that you have not even pretended to live up to your own faith.

Many of them acolytes actually ruining their domestic economy by executing on these principles.

Post reply on HN