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F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

thedrive.com

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Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#381

Post by [deleted] »

dehrmann wrote: post #289
tivert wrote: post #87

Maybe it's another Cornfield Bomber ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber ): > The "Cornfield Bomber" is the nickname given to a Convair F-106 Delta Dart, operated by the 71st Fighter-Interceptor Squadron of the United States Air Force. In 1970, during a training exercise, it made an unpiloted landing in a farmer's field in Montana, suffering only minor damage, after the pilot had ejected from the aircraft…

> aren't required to have transponders or have them activated Seems like you'd want them activated in domestic airspace.

[deleted]

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#382

Post by actionfromafar »

morkalork wrote: post #283
hollerith wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If F-35 is such a failure, how come many countries have chosen to buy it? Consulting this next page, I count 8 countries besides the US that have taken delivery of F-35s, plus many that have ordered it, but not yet taken delivery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning... The UK for example currently has a fleet of 32, and Australia has 50.

It's both until its not. If only 1 or 2 countries signed up, it'd be an expensive failure. If everyone signs up, cost go down and economies of scale make it a wild success.

Yeah, F35 turned into something I would never have anticipated: it's actually not that expensive anymore.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#383

Post by llbeansandrice »

mrb wrote: post #326
MarkMarine wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you’re thinking of is the pilot. If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents (in airframes with, and without ejection seats, where the last actions of the aircrew were steer…

What Scoundreller meant is that if most of the controls are lost, then the few controls remaining could still be used to intentionally destroy the plane as much as possible. For example, the elevator (to control the pitch) might be the last working control, and it could be used to intentionally nosedive the plane after ejection.

I don't think that solves anything. With critical secret pieces of hardware you will still want confirmation that they were destroyed or recover them. So even if the plane can attempt to self-destruct as much as possible, the military is still going to want to confirm the result.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#384

Post by MarkMarine »

viscanti wrote: post #379
MarkMarine wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you’re thinking of is the pilot. If the plane is capable of control, the pilot will move it on a trajectory away from populated areas if possible. Protecting innocent people on the ground in the case of an emergency was always top of mind, you can see this in the crash reporting for multiple real world incidents (in airframes with, and without ejection seats, where the last actions of the aircrew were steer…

> By the time a pilot ejects they’ve exhausted EVERY other option to control the aircraft, no AI is going to regain control at that point. It seems like they probably bail out when they've exhausted every option of being able to land it and survive. There are likely some scenarios where there's limited controls remaining, that wouldn't provide high enough odds of guaranteeing someone's survival, but that could optimi…

I live in the real world, and there are incident reports that go into great detail about every aircraft loss. I’ve read every one since 1999, and I’ve never seen an incident where the pilot ejected over a populated area in an aircraft that was still controlled.

What you all are imagining does not happen, and the odds of it happening are vanishingly small.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#385

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

Fluorescence wrote: post #260
ggambetta wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't watch enough spy movies, but... how do you use a not-really-missing jet to flush out an intelligence leak?

I'm delighted you ask because I watch too many. You crash an end-of-life trainer dressed up as an F35 in a carefully chosen site with no natural foot traffic. The FBI then sits in a bush and arrests everyone that turns up. The F35 is the prime intelligence target for Russia before it gets in Ukrainian hands so they might risk some of their most valuable "illegals" i.e. the long-term embedded agents with flawless iden…

let's be realistic. even their highly prized illegals can't collect much intel about an f35 on us territory.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#386

Post by Arrath »

naikrovek wrote: post #99
IAmGraydon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely BS. Transponders aside, the US has radar and near real-time satellite imagery of every square inch of American territory. There is a zero percent chance they don’t know where this plane is.

> the US has radar and near real-time satellite imagery of every square inch of American territory. have you been watching prime-time crime fighting drama TV shows? the implementation of that system is probably 8x as bad as it sounds, and it sounds too complex to implement in less than two decades. real-time (or "near" real-time, whatever that means) imagery of every square inch of the continental US? No.

Even if the imagery was real-time, the process to get access to it most surely isn't.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#388

Post by hindsightbias »

elil17 wrote: post #239
hindsightbias wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most aircraft are designed to be inherently stable so as long as it doesn't hit anything a good percentage of them should be able to manage pretty well w/o a pilot.

The F35 and other modern fighter jets are the exception to the rule: they are inherently unstable because this makes them more maneuverable. They use electronic control systems to keep themselves stable.

So what does a FCS do after an ejection.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#389

Post by wongarsu »

nradov wrote: post #377
wongarsu wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-35 was designed with the capability to be later converted to remote operation, turning it into a drone (they call it a remotely piloted aircraft). Of course whether the F-35 platform makes sense for that role is a different question. There are probably great niches for a drone F-35 (e.g. targeting anti-air installations), but Ukraine shows that having lots of $1000-$100,000 drones might be more valuable on the…

The cheap drones work well in Ukraine where the adversaries are locked into attrition fights with largely static positions at short ranges. But those drones lack the range, speed, and sensors necessary to be effective in a potential conflict with China around the first island chain. The US military is currently pivoting to focus on that scenario.

If you're trying to defend the beaches of Taiwan or the Philippines, cheap drones sound like a great asset. If you're trying to project power into Chinese mainland less so.

A big reason why the US will continue to prefer drones measured in tons instead of grams is that cheap drones are most useful when you have boots on the ground, which the US likes to avoid. But with the budgets available it's not like they have to choose between F-35 sized drones and Dji Mini sized drones, they can just get both.

Re: F-35 can’t be found after pilot ejected

#390

Post by ciscoriordan »

MarkMarine wrote: post #384
viscanti wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By the time a pilot ejects they’ve exhausted EVERY other option to control the aircraft, no AI is going to regain control at that point. It seems like they probably bail out when they've exhausted every option of being able to land it and survive. There are likely some scenarios where there's limited controls remaining, that wouldn't provide high enough odds of guaranteeing someone's survival, but that could optimi…

I live in the real world, and there are incident reports that go into great detail about every aircraft loss. I’ve read every one since 1999, and I’ve never seen an incident where the pilot ejected over a populated area in an aircraft that was still controlled. What you all are imagining does not happen, and the odds of it happening are vanishingly small.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russian-su-34-fullback...

“The statement went on to add that the crash was caused by an issue with one of the engines during takeoff, but the jet's two crewmembers are said to have ejected safely and survived. The extent of the injuries to the apartment building's tenants as well as civilians in the surrounding area is unknown at present.”

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