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Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

paulfuhr.medium.com

161–170 of 176 posts

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#161
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you submit a text document, the text should actually be text. This is the most basic step. I would not want to hire a designer who sends text as an image.

PDFs are not necessarily text documents. That's why it's important for the system to specify if it's expecting text, or use OCR.

No, but text is text. It is perhaps easier for the designer of the document to just put some text from photoshop rather than tweak the document, but it’s absolutely user hostile.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost all jobs are filled through personal connections. I see this repeated online, but is there any data to actually back this claim up? In my experience only a small number of jobs get filled through referrals etc.

I think this might be a difficult thing to get data on, as I don't think most companies would want to release this info. But I would say in my experience that the more senior the role and the more experience someone has (the author had VP-level experience) it is absolutely the case that you lean on referral networks. Even at the very senior level where people are hired through executive search firms, a big reason tho…

Let's be honest, how many people on HN (or elsewhere) have a VP level job? Even if it is true that jobs are the very senior level are filled this way, that's a very small % of the total (in my company, much smaller than 1%).

So that still wouldn't make the claim that "most jobs are not posted/filled by referrals" true.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#163
post #35

The author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in t…

Resume format is definitely a big reason here. I used to have a resume that looked like this – two-column, made in Adobe Illustrator, fancy icons/fonts. I applied to 150+ places with maybe 5 callbacks. I switched over to a super basic .docx template and got 3x the callbacks. Resume aside, the job search process itself is also insanely outdated. Companies still force you re-enter your resume on their hiring portal and…

@mikeyan320. Curious, how is simplify.jobs handling the labeling/disambiguation of skills and platforms? I've been working in this domain for a few years and have identified this problem as a significant obstacle. I open-sourced struct-ure/kg, a knowledge-graph of IT skills and platforms, as a possible solution: https://github.com/struct-ure/kg. I'd welcome your thoughts on the subject.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#164
post #35

The author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in t…

Resume format is definitely a big reason here. I used to have a resume that looked like this – two-column, made in Adobe Illustrator, fancy icons/fonts. I applied to 150+ places with maybe 5 callbacks. I switched over to a super basic .docx template and got 3x the callbacks. Resume aside, the job search process itself is also insanely outdated. Companies still force you re-enter your resume on their hiring portal and…

oof, no offense but I wish you guys didn't push your browser extension so much. that comes off as incredibly suspicious behavior in my book.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per my experience I end up on the main page first, and on my monitor I can see at least 3-4 posts without even scrolling.

Is it really that apocalyptic? What’s the big deal. Honest question.

I dislike the pretense that bad things happening is somehow good. Or when someone does something that everyone else has done a million times before (like graduate with a higher degree or get into law school), it is somehow newsworthy. I think it makes sense to share highlights of your life with people who care about you, not your professional acquaintances. I want newsworthy and informative items, not feel-good memes or self-congratulatory posts. I also dislike the evangelists who pretend their X thing will save the world and cure all its ills. Yuck.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#166
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is this can be done at scale, and this is a real problem for companies that have lots of 'candidates'. So my argument is that CVs is no longer a reliable indicator anymore.

That is not a valid point. Candidates have always been able to submit fake CVs to many companies. Most of them don't do so, nor will they in the future.

> That is not a valid point.

Scale and ease of effort is a valid and relevant point as it is easier than before for cover letters and CVs to be generated they are as good as dead for hiring managers.

To solve this, do not even consider the CV to begin with and consider looking at candidate's real world projects, bounties and paid PRs. like for example tinycorp [1] or comma.ai [2]

[2] Is similar to a take home except the challenge is public and the deliverable is evaluated on an error score which lower is better.

Solutions will be different to other candidates and the best ones will put in the effort and have a lower error score, it is then you can decide to spend your time interviewing them.

I would even argue that this is even more effective than an ATS that random candidates are sending their fake CVs and cover letters through.

[1] https://tinygrad.org/

[2] https://github.com/commaai/calib_challenge

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#167

Want to start by saying I do really empathize with this person. But I can't help but shake my head a little when I read way too unnecessarily long missives like this (I admit, I only got a couple of paragraphs in before I bailed) and think "this person just doesn't get it." Some points: 1. First, to start, I have a ton of empathy for this person being in an extremely challenging field. He essentially did internal com…

> Small not-so-secret: if you are beyond the age of 30 or so, and you are a relatively high level professional (this person listed VP on his resume), you should be worried if you don't think you'd be able to get your next job through your professional network

Shit.

I used to have a pretty wide professional network when I was doing freelance / contract gigs... these days, after a few stints of full-time in-the-office type work, the number of people I can lean on for work opportunities has shrunk dramatically. the recruiters and talent agencies I used to have a good relationship with have moved on. I'm not at the top of anyone's list anymore. It sucks, and it especially sucks that it happened in the background, while in the foreground, I've worked two of the best jobs of my career in the past 8 years.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#169
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. Bottom-barrel* retail food service gigs don't count. (And even then... I'm certain the manager at the Gamestop I applied to at 18 binned my paper app immediately because he was hiring his friends.) People don't like to admit it, because it calls into question the meritocratic nature of our job market. American recruitment process are fair and appropriate, not corrupt, right? Well... *not in the skill or…

I don't see how personal recommendations are corrupt. If you have a known good employee, and they can attest to someone being a good fit based on previous direct experience with that person, that's a pretty strong signal. If the recommendation comes from someone not so great, or if it's more of a referral than a recommendation, you can weight it appropriately.

>I don't see how personal recommendations are corrupt.

Well, that would be the problem.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#170

Is their evidence that Indeed is posting scraped jobs from other services? The reason this doesn't make sense is as an employer, we found that Indeed produced the highest number of candidates but cost like $400 per listing. We would first post somewhere cheaper and then post on Indeed if we couldn't find a qualified applicant. We would have loved to post somewhere else for less money and have it be scraped and listed…

I believe scraped jobs are ranked lower, because, like the article pointed out, it's harder to ensure their quality.
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