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Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

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Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#121

Post by defrost »

oaththrowaway wrote: post #40
daniel_iversen wrote: post #11

I think I read somewhere recently that the majority of Americans were in favour of stricter gun reforms, yet no real change I laws seem to happen and all the current presidential candidates over in the US seems to not even dare touch the subject. I find it reprehensible and puzzling how they’ve got this weird relationship with guns, but it’s interesting how often people are using a certain interpretation of their con…

Most people that are in favor of stricter gun laws don't understand the current laws that already exist and just hear buzzwords like "gun show loophole"

I'm in rural Australia and have several firearms, they're tools for feral animal control, my neighbour shoots ULR targets at 5,000 yards (not a typo), and 12 year olds can join a gun club.

(ie. recheck any odd notions you might have about gun bans in Australia)

Stricter gun laws, more complicated laws aren't the answer - simple clear uniform gun laws, equally reinforced will do the job.

Unfortuneately the very nature of the (un)United States seems predestined to never enact uniform laws wrt firearms let alone maintain an up to date central register of information etc.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#122

Post by notjoemama »

khaki54 wrote: post #120

They finally found a way to make a US gun violence map that didn't show the most gun violence in the places with the strictest laws

I dislike they’ve confounded suicide and assault, yet again. The point of collecting and presenting data like this is to understand the problem and those two sources of “gun violence” (a political weasel word) have very different reasons for existing. Because of this the solutions must look different but without seeing the categorical error only one broad solution will be presented. Chances are it will do little or nothing because it is not actually a solution to the individual issues.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#123

Post by XorNot »

catiopatio wrote: post #100
XorNot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol notably tends to quietly kill only yourself. Smoking affects everyone around you, firearms too. Alcohol related non-drinker fatalities would be the relevant measure (and still too many, since it's going to be drink driving largely).

That’s not true for firearms. More people die from falling off ladders than die in mass shootings.

And if mass shootings were the only deaths that ever occurred from firearms then they'd be much less of a problem...[1,2] (there were >20,000 gun homicides in 2021, versus about 300 deaths from falling off ladders. There have been 351 mass shootings so far in the US [3])

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-...

[2] https://www.lockjawladdergrip.com/blog/ladder-safety-usa-202...

[3] https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-days-2023-database-...

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#124

Post by [deleted] »

XorNot wrote: post #123
catiopatio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true for firearms. More people die from falling off ladders than die in mass shootings.

And if mass shootings were the only deaths that ever occurred from firearms then they'd be much less of a problem...[1,2] (there were >20,000 gun homicides in 2021, versus about 300 deaths from falling off ladders. There have been 351 mass shootings so far in the US [3]) [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-... [2] https://www.lockjawladdergrip.com/blog/ladder-safety-usa-202... [3] https://…

[deleted]

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#125

Post by bm3719 »

mbfg wrote: post #118
bm3719 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is equally ignorant to be universally against gun control measures Someone "universally against gun control measures" here. I'd be interested in knowing how I'm as ignorant as people who want to regulate things based on scary buzzwords, vaguely describing items that they generally lack any knowledge of. I'd assert it's possible to hold this position, yet also be quite well informed about the history, mec…

Should private citizens be allowed to own rocket launchers with munitions? This is a hyperbolic argument, but so is "universally against gun controls".

It's already possible to do this, though with numerous, onerous restrictions (that I'd advocate against, obviously). For example, if you wanted to own a functional RPG launcher, that would be an NFA-registered DD, and each explosive projectile would be a separate additional NFA tax stamp. You'd also need an active FEL (Federal Explosives License). There's numerous other conditionals that apply, e.g., you wouldn't need the latter for inert projectiles for your RPG, or if the explosive charge was less than 0.25oz.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#126

Post by CapstanRoller »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #57
thrill wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know smokers and a lot of them says that they'd want to drop this shit, but they can't." Yes, they can.

Apparently nicotine is one of the most addictive substances out there. They can if they move to a magical place where they can get any I suppose.

Nicotine by itself is about as addictive as caffeine. Tobacco is very addictive due to the MAOI substances it contains.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#127

Post by CapstanRoller »

diob wrote: post #22
tester756 wrote: post #9

Smoking is biggest shit that's widely accepted, why? idk People argue that banning it would be against "freedom" Please explain to me how: 1) causing harm to yourself 2) causing harm to people around you 3) paying for it additional taxes(!!!) 4) and all of that while being highly addictive ... how is it a freedom? The nature of it being addictive removes "freedom" from the consideration. It isn't freedom when you're…

I want it banned because my stepmom (and father cause why not) chain smoked indoors my whole childhood. It's weird that we allow that.

> It's weird that we allow that.

Many states already prohibit exposing children to secondhand smoke.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#128

Post by CapstanRoller »

tester756 wrote: post #76
parineum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning anything is against freedom. Instead of trying to contort English and logic, explain why it's _worth_ the loss of freedom.

This isn't effectively freedom. It's just seemingly freedom. In the end people end up with an addiction and aren't able to release themselves from it, thus it isn't freedom for them. This logic is simple and coherent.

By that logic we should ban anything remotely pleasurable.

Re: Geographic ‘hot spots’ for cigarette and firearm deaths in the U.S.

#130

Post by chmod600 »

scotty79 wrote: post #37
dbrueck wrote: post #32

Sort of interesting, but the whole setup is oddly misleading: "Smoking and firearms are among the leading causes of avoidable premature death in the United States" The statement is true for smoking but it takes some work to make it true for firearms. And then it describes tobacco and firearms as "both are legal yet lethal" - it borders on nonsensical to pair them that way (I guess possessing both can be legal, but it…

There's another quality that allows to group cigarettes and guns together. They are both completely optional lifestyle choice. While cars and diet might be way harder to opt out given how cars are needed to get to work and stores and the most unhealthy diet is the cheapest and fastest one.

There's always some way to group things together, but I find it unhelpful in this case.

Even grouping all firearm deaths together is almost always unhelpful. Ordinary violent crime with firearms is very different from a school shooting is very different from suicide by firearm.

Then grouping firearm deaths together with a highly addictive and slow-killing vice like cigarettes just adds to the confusion.

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